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Author Topic:   What exactly is ID?
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 400 of 1273 (540871)
12-29-2009 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by traderdrew
12-29-2009 6:02 PM


Re: ID is Here
Drew, what on Earth are you talking about?
This is just one reason why I don't take your world views to seriously.
Dr A's post was not about "world view". He presented you with a set of facts.
The definitions of "creation" and "intelligent design" from Pandas and People are absolutely genuine.
The title of Dumbski's book is genuine.
The quote from Johnson is genuine. Here's another;
quote:
If we understand our own times, we will know that we should affirm the reality of God by challenging the domination of materialism and naturalism in the world of the mind. With the assistance of many friends I have developed a strategy for doing this,...We call our strategy the "wedge".
Where exactly does the oh-so-biased world-view come into it?
You have been presented with a set of facts which clearly demonstrate the religious nature of the ID movement. It has been clearly described as a religious movement by it most prominent advocates, the very people who founded the movement.
You have it straight from the horses' mouths. What else it there to say other than to admit that ID is a religious movement?
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by traderdrew, posted 12-29-2009 6:02 PM traderdrew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by traderdrew, posted 12-29-2009 10:39 PM Granny Magda has replied

Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 409 of 1273 (540908)
12-29-2009 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by traderdrew
12-29-2009 10:39 PM


Re: ID is Here
Hi Drew,
The problem with the Thaxton definition of ID (from Dr. A): ... is that it is nothing more than Creationism.
I agree.
So how would you distinguish it from Creationism?
I wouldn't.
Seriously, the only difference is that ID tries to play hide-the-Bible and present creationism as if it were science. Mostly, this is in a vain attempt to smuggle their creationist propaganda past the Establishment Clause of the US constitution and into the public schools. The purpose of ID is to promote Christian apologetics under the guise of science and at the expense of science. This is deeply dishonest, ignorant and dangerous.
The more I debate Darwinists and atheists or whatever form of materialism any of you subscribe to, the more I am convinced that you all seem to be poor philosophers.
Sanctimonious bullshit. You go on to prove your command of philosophy by indulging in a meandering ramble about nothing in particular. You certainly don't touch upon the topic.
Creationism is a child of a materialistic paradigm.
I've tried long and hard to think of something funny to say in response to that. However, on reflection, I don't think that there's anything I could say that would make it any funnier than it is already.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by traderdrew, posted 12-29-2009 10:39 PM traderdrew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by traderdrew, posted 12-30-2009 12:48 AM Granny Magda has replied

Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 421 of 1273 (540964)
12-30-2009 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by traderdrew
12-30-2009 12:48 AM


Re: Materialism and Creationism
Hi Drew,
And you think it is funny? Well I am glad I at least entertain someone with my humor.
No, humour is when you deliberately make people laugh.
The bible isn't a materialistic science book.
No it's not. So what do you do? You do this...
I am considering Einstein's theory of relativity as applied to Genesis. I haven't worked things out yet but there are people working on it.
If you accept that the Bible is not a science book, then you are wasting your time trying to shoehorn relativity into its pages, where it does not belong.
And thats all there is to it?
Yup. ID is simply an institutionalised lie, designed to attack science and replace it with religious fundamentalism. They are lying to you dude.
It couldn't possibly be anything else? I see over and over again what you people are afraid of.
Oh, great. Could you do me a favour? Next time you use your vast psychic powers to look inside my mind and uncover my innermost fears, could you poke around and see if you can get me to remember where I left my black hat? I can't find that thing anywhere.
Or, alternatively, you don't have psychic powers, you actually have no idea what my fears are and you are talking patronising rubbish, in which case, forget the hat thing.
If you really want to know what I am afraid of with regards to ID, I am worried that a great many well meaning people such as yourself are going to be deceived by an inane and vacuous lie. I am worried that this lie will cause you to waste hundreds of hours of your life defending dishonest nonsense. I am worried that a great many children will have their education vandalised by liars and dupes. That is what I fear.
Do I need to tell you that astrology and Christianity are incompatible?
Coyote has already put you right on this one. Behe was forced to admit on oath that his definition of science was broad enough to allow astrology alongside ID.
For my part, I would like to note that Christianity is supposed to be incompatible with lying. In my judgement, this makes the ID lobby very bad Christians as well as bad scientists.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by traderdrew, posted 12-30-2009 12:48 AM traderdrew has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by traderdrew, posted 12-30-2009 11:22 AM Granny Magda has replied

Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 425 of 1273 (540972)
12-30-2009 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by traderdrew
12-30-2009 11:22 AM


Re: Materialism and Creationism
I still fail to see how you interpret Creationism as being materialist.
Creationism is based on someone's interpretation within a limited materialistic point of view of existence.
First, the word you are looking for is "materialist", not "materialistic", which means something else entirely.
Second, I don't see how you can describe Creationists as materialists, when they typically believe in "the spirit of God" (as per Gen 1:2), the soul, Heaven, God's magical powers, the spiritual kingdom of Christ, etc. This is not materialism. I think perhaps you need to go and look the term up.
I have a strong suspicion that says it explains Genesis as according to what someone believed the way the world ought to have been created. This person probably had no concept of quantum physics or time dialation.
I agree. They had no concept of modern science or its discoveries. That is why I say that attempting to interpret Genesis in light of such knowledge is foolish.
....but that was my point! My recollection of the event wasn't totally correct but you have the idea now.
So we are agreed that ID is poor theology and poor science. Great.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by traderdrew, posted 12-30-2009 11:22 AM traderdrew has not replied

Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 907 of 1273 (544583)
01-27-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 902 by Buzsaw
01-27-2010 12:05 AM


Re: Design Flaw
Hi Buz,
If you want a better view of the issues raised by the recurrent laryngeal nerve, there is a thread open on the topic. Perhaps you will be the first to explain why the RLN takes the peculiar route that it does.
Mutate and Survive
AbE; Oops! Forgot to post a link; Unintelligent design (recurrent laryngeal nerve)
Edited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 902 by Buzsaw, posted 01-27-2010 12:05 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 948 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2010 5:38 PM Granny Magda has not replied

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