Interestingly atop and below each coal seam are leaves sticks and twigs that are still wood, and look very much like leaves and twigs that you find on the forest floor when bush walking....By the way these coal seams are about 150 metres to 200 metres below the surface...
Since a cubic meter of coal weighs 1506 kilograms (more than one and a half tons for us non-metric people), it seems a bit curious to me that sticks and leaves that have been buried under a few hundred tons of rock and coal still look they're fresh from the forest floor. Shouldn't the sticks have been crushed flat and no longer looking like what you find when bush walking?
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but creationists not only argue against the accuracy of 14C dating, they also argue for it. For example, the RATE group (a creationist dating group) argues that 14C dating is so accurate that they can date coal accurately to 50,000 years.
Here is a source from the NDT Resource Center so you cant reject it right off as 'creationist lies'
Let me give you a little information that your source left out and you can decide for yourself whether they're lying.
NDT Resource Center writes:
The word "estimates" is used because there is a significant amount of uncertainty in these measurements.
If by "significant amount of uncertainty" they mean 5-10% for cases where there are no sample problems, then they are correct. But if they mean hundreds of percent of error as in something dated to 50,000 years old is actually 5,000 years old then they're incorrect.
Each sample type has specific problems associated with its use for dating purposes, including contamination and special environmental effects.
This is true. It is common for samples to present challenges, and the radiocarbon dating industry has developed a wide variety of approaches for dealing with this problem. For example, post-discovery contamination can be handled by placing a newly discovered sample in a sample container along with something known to have no carbon contamination. The sample and the carbon-sterile item are both dated, and any non-zero date for carbon-sterile item must be due to contamination and can be subtracted out. Rather than telling you about the techniques science has developed to address problems like contamination and then going on to question how this was done, they just chose not to tell you about it.
First, as mentioned previously, the proportions of C-14 in the atmosphere in historic times is unknown. The C-14:C-12 atmospheric ratio is known to vary over time and it is not at all certain that the curve is “well behaved.”
This was true at one time back when Libby first developed the process, but what your source doesn't tell you is that science has worked hard to rectify this, and we now have 14C profiles for the atmosphere going back the necessary 50,000 years. Rather than telling you that science has addressed this problem and then going on to question how this was done, they just chose not to tell you about it.
Complicating things further, various plants have differing abilities to exclude significant proportions of the C-14 in their intake. This varies with environmental conditions as well. The varying rates at which C-14 is excluded in plants also means that the apparent age of a living animal may be affected by an animals diet. An animal that ingested plants with relatively low C-14 proportions would be dated older than their true age.
It is true that this was once a problem, but your article doesn't mention that scientists have developed correction approaches that require measuring the 13C concentration. Rather than telling you about 13C-based corrections and then going on to question the effectiveness, they just chose not to tell you about it.
This Thread is About Creationist Problems with Radiocarbon Dating
You don't need to put people's names in the message title. At the top and bottom of each message is a line stating who it is a reply to.
What you do need to do is clearly state the problems you think exist with radiocarbon dating. Google Translate does an excellent job of translation on technical articles from Russian to English. If you can clearly state your position in Russian then Google Translate will translate it into clear English.
There is a need to distinguish among sources of Hg to the atmosphere in order to more fully understand global Hg pollution. In this study we investigate whether coal deposits within the United States, China, and Russia-Kazakhstan, which are three of the five greatest coal-producing regions, have diagnostic Hg isotopic fingerprints that can be used to discriminate among Hg sources. We also investigate the Hg isotopic composition of modern organic soil horizons developed in areas distant from point sources of Hg in North America. Mercury stored in coal deposits displays a wide range of both mass dependent fractionation (MDF, δ202Hg) and mass independent fractionation (MIF, Δ201Hg). δ202Hg varies in coals by 3‰ and Δ201Hg varies by 0.9‰. Combining these two Hg isotope signals results in what may be a unique isotopic “fingerprint” for many coal deposits. Mass independent fractionation of mercury has been demonstrated to occur during photochemical reactions of mercury. This suggests that Hg found in most coal deposits was subjected to photochemical reduction near the Earth’s surface prior to deposition. The similarity in MDF and MIF of modern organic soils and coals from North America suggests that Hg deposition from coal may have imprinted an isotopic signature on soils. This research offers a new tool for characterizing mercury inputs from natural and anthropogenic sources to the atmosphere and provides new insights into the geochemistry of mercury in coal and soils.
And then using Google Translate we translate it into Russian and back into English we get this:
English to Russian to English writes:
There is a need to distinguish the sources of mercury to the atmosphere in order to better understand the global pollution Hg. In this study we investigate whether coal fields in the United States, China, Russia, Kazakhstan, which are three of the five largest coal-producing regions, have diagnostic Hg isotopic fingerprints, which can be used to discriminate between Hg sources. We also investigate the Hg isotopic composition of modern organic soil horizons developed in areas remote from point sources of mercury in North America. Mercury is stored in the coal fields a wide range of the mass dependent fractionation (MDF, δ202Hg) and mass independent fractionation (MIF, Δ201Hg). δ202Hg coals varies by 3 ‰, and Δ201Hg changed to 0,9 ‰. The combination of these two isotopes of Hg indicates the results that may be unique isotopic "fingerprint" for many coal deposits. The mass independent fractionation of mercury has been shown to occur in photochemical reactions of mercury. This suggests that most of the mercury in coal deposits was subjected to photochemical reduction near the surface of the Earth to the deposition. The similarity in the MDF and MIF modern organic soil and coal from North America show that the deposition of mercury from coal can be printed on the isotopic signature of the soil. This study provides a new tool for the characterization of mercury inputs from natural and anthropogenic sources to the atmosphere and provides a fresh look at the geochemistry of mercury in coal and soil.
Look how easily understandable that double translation is. If you put intelligible English in then you get intelligible English out. That you're posting unintelligible English tells us that you're putting unintelligible Russian into Google Translate. I think this tells us that you're barely literate even in Russian. Just look at this:
Although it is here and this is not all it should.
Let me translate that into Russian for you:
morningstar2008's gobbledygook translated into Russian writes:
Несмотря на то, что именно здесь и это не все, что должно.
Does that make any sense to you? Well, it didn't make any sense in English, either. No wonder we can't figure out what you're saying - even if this board were in Russian you wouldn't be making any sense.
Anyway, the topic of this thread is radiocarbon dating. No matter how dire the consequences of your other worries, they are not the topic of this thread. If you'd like to discuss something else then please find another thread.