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Author Topic:   Avoiding Aliens
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 62 (557540)
04-26-2010 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stagamancer
04-26-2010 2:14 AM


Foundationless assertions
While the prospect of meeting a sentient alien species is exciting (even if very far fetched), I think he does make a good point.
I don't think he has a point at all since it is completely reliant on pure speculation. He places the cart way before the horse. There is exactly 0 evidence that any intelligent life exists outside of earth. From that basic conjecture, he then assumes that said lifeforms would be as intelligent or more intelligent than humans. Stephen, lets get to proving life outside of this earth first, guy, let alone this solar system, then we'll start considering the War of the Worlds.
My main question to you is: Do the potential benefits from contacting alien species outweigh the risks, or has Dr Hawking been watching too much V?
Anything is possible. Is there a probability that life exists outside of this earth? Yes, but I wouldn't know how to begin to quantify the probability. But Hawkins may be watching too many movies.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2010 3:17 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 62 (557545)
04-26-2010 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
04-26-2010 8:32 AM


I agree with Hawking on this.
I think people shouldn't waste their precious time on earth listening to white noise or staring aimlessly in to a vacant sky, hoping for some chance encounter. But that is beside the point.
What is more to the point is that I don't see the relevance of the inquiry. It would be like saying we shouldn't try to find Bigfoot on the basis that it might be a violent creature. But if literally nothing is known of such a creature (either Bigfoot or aliens) then the fear of violent overthrow is precipiced on human beliefs based upon our own penchant for destruction.
That nothing whatsoever is concretely known of bigfoot, aliens, loch ness monster, gryphons, YHWH, Molech, pixies, leprechauns, etc, literally anything could be possible. To concede that you shouldn't look for something on the pretense that it could be dangerous would preclude all of science to cease and desist on that exact same basis. That emasculates science and strips it of it of its wonder.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 04-26-2010 8:32 AM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by nwr, posted 04-26-2010 3:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 62 (557546)
04-26-2010 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rahvin
04-26-2010 3:17 PM


Re: Foundationless assertions
whether we seek contact or not is irrelevant, because we're already bleeding all over the radio bands for anyone to see if they're in range. If there's a scary "exterminate the humans" evil alien overlord out there, the damage in terms of letting them know we exist has already been done.
Yeah, really. Since anything is possible, it is also possible that what sustains life here could be toxic to life there (wherever that may be). Just because the earth has a very specific criteria for life does not necessarily mean that hypothetical extra-terrestrial life is carbon-based or needs oxygen to survive.
I guess the real problem is that there are incalculable variables that any amount of speculation will amount to more speculation because literally nothing is known of it. We have to have a reasonable basis in which to hypothesize in the first place. We don't even have that at our disposal. So I don't see Hawkins' caveat as even having teeth.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2010 3:17 PM Rahvin has replied

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 Message 25 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2010 4:18 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 62 (557567)
04-26-2010 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by nwr
04-26-2010 3:50 PM


I think SETI is a rather dubious way of doing that.
I won't argue that point. Also as Slavesque touched on, it's a huge waste of money, effort, and time.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 62 (557568)
04-26-2010 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Rahvin
04-26-2010 4:18 PM


Re: Foundationless assertions
I'm not exactly going to lose sleep.
Nor am I. I think there is a decent chance that, somewhere in the vast expanse of the universe, life exists outside of this solar system. I think there is also a decent chance that some of it could be considered "intelligent." It is also possible that said intelligent life is parasitic, constantly roving for hosts to exploit. That is within the realm of possibility. But it's also possible that a Hippo's ass orbits Alpha Centauri too, so I won't hold my breath.
I'll even go so far to say that maybe Hawkins' is right; that we might not want to invite danger. The only problem is that so little is known it's like preparing for a disaster you cannot even begin to contemplate because you have nothing to go by.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

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 Message 25 by Rahvin, posted 04-26-2010 4:18 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 62 (558208)
04-30-2010 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Species8472
04-30-2010 10:45 AM


Fearing fear itself
If there's one thing we should learn from history, it's that conquerors and tyrants are seldom rational. Since when was the last time we saw a conqueror or tyrant that was rational and logical?
You laught at the idea now...
There is a critical difference before the story you shared and aliens. We KNOW the French exist. We don't know if aliens exist, let alone whether or not they are intelligent, and if they are intelligent, whether or not they're hostile.
Do you see the problem? There are so many hypotheticals that it really isn't worth agonizing over. You're placing the cart way before the horse here. It's misguided fear based on Sci-Fi novels and Hollywood. You are fearing fear itself.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 10:45 AM Species8472 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 11:30 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 62 (558234)
04-30-2010 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Species8472
04-30-2010 11:30 AM


Re: Fearing fear itself
But anyway, do you see what I am saying? I'm NOT making the argument that there ARE aliens and that they will destroy us.
I do, thanks for clarifying. However, isn't the only point of the inquiry in reference to aliens existing? Basing aliens desire to conquer is based soley on your family's experience of having been invaded. I am just pointing out that we know nothing of aliens or even if they exist, so that any fears stem from the human mind, not reality.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 11:30 AM Species8472 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 1:16 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 62 (558289)
04-30-2010 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Species8472
04-30-2010 1:16 PM


Re: Fearing fear itself
So, in short, yes call me delusional if you like. I'd rather be careful and nothing happens than not paying attention and be caught off guard.
I'm not saying that you're delusional, I'm saying your comparisons of invaders in human history bears no relevance to the current discussion.
Since all the supposed fears I have pointed out are just a delusion to you, how would you recommend we approach a first contact situation? Welcome them as benefactors to us exactly like how the Vietnamese first greeted the French?
I couldn't begin to answer this question genuinely because there are too many variables. Here you assume that said aliens would be intelligent. Since there is exactly 0 evidence of life outside of this planet, let alone this solar system, there is no basis for even a starting point. It is literally about the same as asking me how I would respond to dolls suddenly coming to life. It has never happened, so what exactly am I supposed to extract from it?
All your comparisons are based off of preconceived notions that you have about aliens and invaders in general. I am trying to get you to understand that, but you keep going on about events in human history that bear no relevance to the subject.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 1:16 PM Species8472 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 3:36 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 62 (558429)
05-01-2010 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Species8472
04-30-2010 3:36 PM


Re: Fearing fear itself
Premises:
1) There exists another intelligent species in the galaxy.
2) Said intelligent species is technologically advance enough for space travel.
3) Said space travel method used by intelligent species other than mankind allows them to travel thousands of light years in relatively short time.
4) Said thousands of light years in relatively short time puts Earth within range.
5) They come in ships and initiate contact with Earth.
Question:
Approach with caution or assume there is absolutely no reason for them to be agressive toward us and therefore just allow them to come down to our world and do whatever?
Since you've led the horse to water, the answer is obvious. That's like saying if I put a loaded gun to your head, would you rather me pull the trigger or not?
Isn't the answer obvious? It was in your question too.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Species8472, posted 04-30-2010 3:36 PM Species8472 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Taz, posted 05-01-2010 1:31 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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