I looked around a bit, and the only thing I could find about this dude was some profile on a Christian site (here and here) in which he talks about how great it is he now believes in god and how he got there, and his Hyves page (here) (kinda like facebook). It's all in Dutch though.
If this is the same guy, here is his picture, if that helps:
Admins, if this is not Ok, I'll remove the pic.
In short, I don't think he's an expert in anything.
No guidelines that adress this specifically, Percy is posting this pic allowed ?
I don't know much about the legislation on this type of thing, but anyhow isn't this guy, by posting his pic on the internet, permitting a use such as this one of it ?
Did they carbon date the wood? Wouldn't the wood be too old to carbon date to begin with and would return inaccurate results?
Naturally I am skeptical of this "finding" because it has happened before. Here is a wiki article on searches for the Ark: Searches for Noah's Ark - Wikipedia.
Also:
quote:In 2007, a joint Turkish-Hong Kong expedition including members of Noah's Ark Ministries International claimed to find an unusual cave with fossilized wooden walls on Mount Ararat, well above the vegetation line. This 2007 expedition marked the first time in history that an alleged material sample of Noah's Ark was retrieved for lab analysis; the sample was determined by the Department of Earth Sciences at the University of Hong Kong to be petrified wood, although the origin of the material remains uncertain. However, since the discovery in 2008 there have been no findings linking this sample to Noah's Ark.[20] In 2010, members of Noah's Ark Ministries International reported that carbon dating suggests the wood is 4,800 years old which they believe to be the date of the Flood. However visual inspection of the wood structure indicates that it could not possibily be that old, as it is holding quite substantial weight and remains quite firm. The carbon dating of the wood sample has not been demonstrated to have followed suitable technique. They may have collected wood from the ground of the cave, which may have been in use for millenia, and then assumed the wood on the ground is a fragment of the structure.. They also deny that there was any human settlement at the site. In this case, the mountain is close to the plains of Mesopotamia, Sumeria , and Persia , which are known to been inhabitted continuously for many thousands of years. [21]
Did they carbon date the wood? Wouldn't the wood be too old to carbon date to begin with and would return inaccurate results?
Carbon-dating goes back up around 60k years (depending on the size of the material)
This is what I find wierd in all this, they carbon-dated it to 4800 years. Creationists usually say accelerated nuclear decay is responsible for the wrong results given by this method, yet the carbon in the ark would have been exempt from this ?
Naturally I am skeptical of this "finding" because it has happened before. Here is a wiki article on searches for the Ark: Searches for Noah's Ark - Wikipedia.
Yeah, same reason I am also skeptical. I mean, with the number of arks that have already been ''found'' you gotta think Noah actually had a whole fleet of boats.
1- What is your level of skepticism ? (I gotta say mine is extremely high)
Good.
You know, when I was 20, I actually thought this might be true. Back in 1994. People gave me all sorts of circumstantial details about how last year a dedicated team of archaeologist had found the Ark and how next year the people who found the Ark would come back with actual evidence.
But the thing is that this idea has hung about the evangelical community for year after year. We're always just about to learn that there is real solid evidence for the Ark. It has been ... kind of ... discovered ... and they're going to produce the real actual proof ... next year.
And the first news source that you cite has this to say: "There have been several reported discoveries of the remains of Noah's Ark over the years, most notably a find by archaeologist Ron Wyatt in 1987."
When I was 13.
Now I just want to shout: "Show us the frickin' Ark!"
2- If it really turns out to be what they say it is, what are the implications ?
Well, if someone actually found some structure that they could verify really was Noah's Ark, then the implications would be huge.
But I'm not holding my breath.
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The survival of the Ark is not even implied by scripture. If you believe the Bible, it was a structure built out of wood, made four thousand years ago, and designed to last for about a year, and then lodged on a mountain, rather than, for example, in a peat-bog. Even if every word of the Book of Genesis was true, I wouldn't expect a 4000-year old wooden artifact to survive in those conditions. Yet curiously enough, people keep on discovering it. Well ... kinda discovering it. But not really discovering it.
Looks like Creationism will either have to deny these "findings" outright or adapt and evolve (pun intended) their viewpoints to support it, thereby confirming carbon dating accuracy on their part.
On another note, some are claiming this is the same site and location of previous ark expeditions/discoveries. Is this true?
Sorry for the edit but I figured I would add the video posted on YouTube, this was linked from many articles on the subject:
And the first news source that you cite has this to say: "There have been several reported discoveries of the remains of Noah's Ark over the years, most notably a find by archaeologist Ron Wyatt in 1987."
Ron Wyatt was always a ****er, seriously.
''Hey Guys, I found the ark of the covenant. Yeah I know it's pretty cool, but the best part is that there was some of Jesus's blood on it, and I analysed it and it proves Jesus didn't have a human father. Yeah I know crazy isn't it ? What, You want to see it for yourself ? But no you can't, I've already stored it in my basement alongside the Tablets of the Ten commandements, Noah's wife jewelry, ash from Sodom and Gomorrah, chariots wheels from the Pharaoh of the Exodus, and artifacts from the Ark ... sorry and I lost the key''
The survival of the Ark is not even implied by scripture. If you believe the Bible, it was a structure built out of wood, made four thousand years ago, and designed to last for about a year, and then lodged on a mountain, rather than, for example, in a peat-bog. Even if every word of the Book of Genesis was true, I wouldn't expect a 4000-year old wooden artifact to survive in those conditions. Yet curiously enough, people keep on discovering it. Well ... kinda discovering it. But not really discovering it.
Agreed, the 'survival' of the ark isn't logically necessary from the Bible. HTis has been repeated many times by CMI and AiG who are also very skeptic by each new 'announcement' of it's discovery.
Although it would fit well with the historical references that it did survive and could still be visible such as the one by Josephus.
Although it would fit well with the historical references that it did survive and could still be visible such as the one by Josephus.
Um ... Josephus is not particularly a "historical reference" for times two thousand years before he was born. He wasn't there, and he didn't check his facts much.
IIRC, Josephus is the source for the idea that the Jews during their sojourn in Egypt built the Pyramids, which is so wrong historically. A lot of Christians believe this like it was written in the Bible, but it really isn't.
Looks like a picture from one of those gay dating sites. Are you sure you got the right one?
But in short, I, too, have been hearing them discovering the ark and rediscovering it every so often. I remember being so excited when I first heard about this back when I was still a christian.
Christians need to stop supporting these cranks. People like Ron Watt and now apparently these christian archaeologists are doing more damage than not. They're driving all the honest people away from christianity.
I think my disappointment when I found out they keep rediscovering the ark in this fashion contributed directly to my abandonment of christianity.
I tend to call religion BS now, but I still remember how comfortable and good it felt to be a christian. If the religion wants to stop driving people away, it needs to stop breeding these cranks among its ranks.
Christians need to stop supporting these cranks. [...] They're driving all the honest people away from christianity.
By all means, let them carry on then.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Paleobabble has been forwarded an email apparently originating with ark-hunter Randall Price.
According to the email Price reports that the original photos were of a structure near the Black Sea, which was later moved - at least in part - to Ararat. Price and his associates have apparently lost $100,000 over this.
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