Discerning Which Definition to Use

When a word with multiple meanings is encountered in a sentence, how does one discern which meaning is to be used?Most people know that it is the usage within the sentence that tells us which meaning is intended by the author.This issue keeps popping up and I thought I'd start a thread for this issue to avoid dragging other topics off course.This thread is not restricted to any one word or verse in the Bible. I will be starting with Peg's favorite though, since it keeps popping up.Yom in Genesis 1. Even after a long discussion in the Define literal vs non-literal. thread. Peg apparently still doesn't or won't understand how to discern which meaning of a multiple-meaning word is to be used within a sentence.From Message 136 in the Is faith the answer to cognitive dissonance? thread: Peg, the usage within the sentence tells us which meaning to use. The first occurrence is the name of the light hours, the second occurrence refers to what we call a 24-hour day. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.Rules of Bible InterpretationYom: From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset (This refers to the name of the light hours), or from one sunset to the next (This refers to what we call a 24-hour day)), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb) -- age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (... Live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger. As noted above, the common usage refers to the name of the light hours or what we call a 24-hour day. The words around yom (night, day, evening, morning) are consistent with what we call a 24-hour day. Ancient Egypt: The Father Of Time
Sun Dial of Ahaz: Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down. (Isaiah 38:8)The Priestly writer was aware of a 24 hour day as was his audience. So they knew the length of a regular day. Notice: It is to be interpreted as we would any other volume: applying the laws of language and grammatical analysis.The common usage for the word "yom" is the name of the light hours and for what we call a 24-hour day. Without clear indicators signifying a figurative use, the logical translation for the first occurrence would be the name of the light hours and the second occurrence would be what we call a 24-hour day.The context of the sentence, which mentions evening and morning, clearly tells us that "yom" should be translated as a 24 hour day. There are no indicators in the sentence to suggest otherwise. Peg, if you feel there are indicators that tell us to use a figurative meaning, then show me the indicators (English or Hebrew) within the sentence that tell us to use a figurative meaning. Now you like to try a use other verses to set a precedent for what you propose, but this rule does not negate the usage of a word within a specific sentence. The rules of language and grammar still prevail.So let's move forward, Peg. Show me the indicators. Don't rehash the same arguments as the other threads. No one has disagreed that the word yom has more than one meaning. No one has disagreed that it has been used figuratively within the Bible. In this one sentence: Show me the indicators, in Hebrew or English, that tell us to use a figurative meaning of yom.(Bible Study please)Edited by purpledawn, : Title Typo

Thread copied here from the Discerning Which Defintion to Use thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

i certainly dont view the light of day as 24 hours...i dont know anyone who does.i think of it as the 'light time' as opposed to the 'dark time'i believe there is light in the sky for 12 hours, not 24. i have done this a million times already"and the light he called day but the darkness he called night"The light was called day....it says nothing about time, only light.There is one more aspect with regard to definition that you are not taking into consideration. Other bible passages. For instance, the following chapter lists the 6 creative days and says they came to their completion and the 7th day came and God rested on that day....yet it doesnt say that 7th day came to its completion as it does the previous 6.So you should take that into consideration because what it shows to a lot of bible students is that when Moses wrote the book of genesis, that 7th day was still in progress. It was also still in progress according to the apostle Pauls words in Hebrews that christians had the opportunity to 'enter into Gods rest day'Its not only the immediate verse you need to look at to determine which definition to use, but also other passages in the rest of the bible which may expand on the verse you are looking at. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Here are some other examples of how different bible passages can help to determine the meaning of an obscure verse.In the KJ version at 2Peter 3:10 it reads, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.if you look at this verse you might conclude, like many do, that the earth is going to be destroyed.But the following verses show that the earth will remain forever: This must cause us to look at the verse in 2 Peter and ask what exactly is the 'earth' in that verse. It cannot be the phycial earth because the bible shows in many other verses that the earth will stand forever. So 'earth' in 2 peter is understood to be figurative in its use.the apostle Paul also used this technique in Romans chapter 9 where he quotes from 11 other parts of the hebrew scirptures to make his point that following the mosaic law was no longer a requirement for salvation.So my point in this is to show that its not only the individual verse which determines the definition or context, but its also verses from other parts of the bible that contribute to the definition of the word being used. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Admittedly, PD has far more knowledge on this subject than I, but I can't help but to point this out (after reading her steller OP, I became rather intrigued). Peg, you have the word for 'day" twice there. They both obviously have two different meanings in the same sentence. How can you determine what definition to ascribe to them both? To me, it's glaringly obvious. I don't understand why you are jumping through all the hoops. Even when you re-quote the passage, you leave out the second "day" usage, as if it was only said once. I can't see this as a respectable answer, Peg. It is very obvious, in this passage, what the word "yom" is to mean:

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God called the light "day,"
  —supposedly god

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Obviously, this means daytime, or the light portion of the 24 hour day.

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....and there was morning--the first day.
  —supposedly god

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Here, it logically means the entire 24 hour day. We don't need any other verses to muddy the waters, Peg.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Ok, i agree with you on that point. But purpledawns point is that the 'day' in this verse means a 24 hour day....not only the light portion.So tell me, How many hours are there in the light portion of a 24 hour day? Why?Explain why it 'logically' means a 24 hour day.

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i certainly dont view the light of day as 24 hours...i dont know anyone who does.

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i think of it as the 'light time' as opposed to the 'dark time'

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i believe there is light in the sky for 12 hours, not 24.

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Yom has multiple meanings. We aren't trying to figure out what the word Yom means. Those meanings have already been provided for us by the lexicon. I did not create those meanings.No one has intimated that the light hours are 24 hours long. Per the Lexicon we are given the literal meanings of yom. Notice there are two literal meanings for the word.
1. Sunrise to sunset (the light hours)
2. Sunset to sunset (this is what we call a 24-hour day)We are also given the figurative uses of the word yom. So far we agree on the first usage of the word yom in Genesis 1:5. It refers to the light hours. What we disagree on is the second usage of the word yom in Genesis 1:5. I say the literal meaning of sunset to sunset is to be used and you say a figurative meaning is to be used. When yom is to be used figuratively there are indicators within the sentence that instruct us to do so, just as with our word day. So far you have been unable or unwilling to provide those indicators that tell you to use a figurative meaning for the second usage of the word yom in Genesis 1:5.

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Its not only the immediate verse you need to look at to determine which definition to use, but also other passages in the rest of the bible which may expand on the verse you are looking at.

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No. To discover all possible meanings of a word, we look at how it is used in other verses, but again that has already been done for us.To understand which definition to use within a sentence, we rely on the sentence. Only the sentence can tell us which meaning we are to use. Show me the indicators in Genesis 1:5 that you feel tells us to use a figurative meaning for the second use of yom.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Are you trying to say now that "day" or "yom" only has one meaning?If I tell you that I will see you in two days, what do you think I mean? Are you going to factor in the "non-daytime" hours that also are included in those two days?If I tell you that vampires don't come out during the day, what do you think I mean? It depends on the time of year, of course. But I guess for the sake of this discussion, we can ascribe 12 hours light/12 hours dark.

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And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day

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Note the "and" which I bolded. The morning AND the evening=1 day. I say logically because I am not performing mental gymnastics to twist the words that are written. I say logically because I know how to read a sentence.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

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In the KJ version at 2 Peter 3:10 it reads, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

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if you look at this verse you might conclude, like many do, that the earth is going to be destroyed.

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This is where the Rule of Historical Background comes in to play. If one reads the verse and assumes the word earth refers to the entire planet, then they will conclude incorrectly that the plant will be destroyed. At the time 2 Peter was written, ge was not a name for the planet (Not The Planet), but the literal meaning of the word ge is to be used in that sentence. I don't see a figurative meaning for the word ge/earth.The praises in Psalm 104:5 and the laments in Ecclesiastes 1:4 do not assist one in understanding the meaning to be used for ge in 2 Peter 3:10. In all three verses the literal meaning of the word eretz or ge is used.You're confusing the meaning of the word with what the sentence is saying. These are two different issues. A sentence can be speaking figuratively and still use the literal meanings of words within the sentence. My love's like a red, red rose - all the words use their common meaning.
Carthage was a beehive of buzzing workers. - all the words use their common meaning.
This is your brain on drugs - all the words use their common meaning.The sentence is what gives us the visual picture that is different than how we commonly view love, Carthage, workers or a brain.Don't confuse the meaning of the word, with the meaning of the sentence, paragraph or story.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

And what are the figurative meanings? I have showed you from Genesis 2:4 that ALL the previous 6 days...the days you claim to be 24 hours long....are refered to as ONE day.
Gen 2:4This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, IN THE DAY that Jehovah God made earth and heaven"You havnt showed me what the literal indicators are....what are they? yes it has.
Gen 2:4 says that all 6 days were 1 day. This implies that the 'day' is being used figuratively. So yes, i agree with you here, all the possible meanings of the word are shown in the surrounding verses. Ok, if that is the case then please show me what the definition, and indicators for that definition, are in the following verse:

I fear you are being obtuse on purpose peg. So either you are wrong or the bible is conflicting. Which is it? (I believe it is both, but who am I to judge?)

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

No. Yom has both figurative and literal uses in the bible including 'very long periods of time'...which is the definition we put to the genesis day. Yay, someone else gets it. Yes you know how to read english and you've read it in english and concluded that. So why do you think Gen 2:4 states that all six of the creative days were called 'one' day? Why do you think this verse rolling all 6 days into 1?

Then explain Genesis 1. Why does Genesis 1 list individual days? I refuse to quote the same verses anymore, only for you to ignore them. What do I think? I think the bible is horse puckey. The way it looks to me is that the guys who made up this myth didn't know what they were doing.However, in light of this discussion, I will say that Genesis 2 should be viewed as a sort of "reflection", if you will. Looking back "at the time period" when creation happened. Genesis 1 is to be "exactly" what happened, and the time frame attributed to it.For example: if I am a carpenter and I build my own shed, I might detail how exactly I did it and what I did on a given day. Now, when I reflect on it, I may say something like " back in the day when I built this shed". Are you going to all of a sudden think it took me 1 day to build the shed? Or will you realize that I am being figurative?

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

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And what are the figurative meanings?

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I gave those in Message 7 right below the literal.

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I have showed you from Genesis 2:4 that ALL the previous 6 days...the days you claim to be 24 hours long....are refered to as ONE day.
Gen 2:4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, IN THE DAY that Jehovah God made earth and heaven"

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In Genesis 2:4 a figurative definition of yom is required. In the lexicon meaning provided in Message 7 one of the figurative meanings is "(as) when". In Genesis 1:5 the word is yovm. In Genesis 2:4 the word is beyovm.Genesis 2:4 is not referring to a literal 24-hour day. It is referring to a general time in the past. The sentence is simply saying,

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You havnt showed me what the literal indicators are....what are they?

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It isn't nice to demand when you won't provide the indicators that tell you figurative. Indicators are needed to signal figurative use in this case, not literal use. If you read the excerpt above, it is explained clearly.

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yes it has.
Gen 2:4 says that all 6 days were 1 day. This implies that the 'day' is being used figuratively. So yes, i agree with you here, all the possible meanings of the word are shown in the surrounding verses.

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No, Genesis 2:4 is not referring back to the days in Genesis 1. It is referring forward to the A&E story. These all belong to the Redactor and they refer to what follows, not what has already been read. (Notice I'm sending you forward, not backwards. ) I'm not clear on which usage of the word yom you are saying is to be used figuratively. You need to clarify, but the use of yom in Genesis 2:4 has no bearing on either use of the word yom in Genesis 1:5.The indicators must be within the sentence itself as it is in Genesis 2:4. Those indicators are not in Genesis 1:5. Do you really not see the difference?

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purpledawn writes:

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To understand which definition to use within a sentence, we rely on the sentence. Only the sentence can tell us which meaning we are to use.

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Ok, if that is the case then please show me what the definition, and indicators for that definition, are in the following verse:

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What indicates that the leaven is literal or firgurative? writes:

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Matt 16:5-6 "Now the disciples crossed to the other side and forgot to take loaves along. 6 Jesus said to them: Keep YOUR eyes open and watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

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What word are you talking about in this verse?As I said, the meaning of the word is different than the meaning of the sentence, paragraph, or story.Edited by purpledawn, : Typo

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Not sure i can agree with that considering the following scriptures use the same greek word 'ge' the first two state that the earth will stand forever, that it will never be destroyed , that it will exist into eternity....the last says the earth will be destroyedWhat the first two, among others, do is shows that Gods will for the planet is not to be destroyed so we cannot say the verse in 2 Peter means the literal earth will be destroyed. This is how other passages in the bible help us to determine what is figurative and what is literal.2ndly, the context contributes to this when it says that the earth in Noahs day was destroyed.
Vs 5 states: "For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an EARTH (ge) standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water" So the context shows that the earth in vs 10 was the 'people' not the planet/earth/ge because the planet was not destroyed...only the people were.I hope you can see why a figurative or literal use of a word cannot be determined within a sentence alone. You need much more then just the sentence in question. You really cannot apply creative writing to the bible...it wasnt written by creative writers using creative writing teqniques...our rules do not apply. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.