Discerning Which Definition to Use

because on the 8th day a child was circumcise...there are plenty of verses that state it. If there were verses that stated something different, then the verse would need to be looked at more closely.but there are plenty of verses backing up that children were circumsized on the 8th day. These verses give sound reason to conclude that leviticus was to be taken literally. And not only verses, but jewish customs add to the proof of it too. The jews today still circumcise on the 8th day. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Why, Peg. What makes you "believe" this? What qualifies this? Were they standing before Moses for hundred's/thousands of years? Were they tending it for hundred's/thousands of years?Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Thank you.Now tell me why we should read Genesis 1 differently since yom is used in the same exact manner.I'm off for now peg. I'll be back in a few hours. I've got to go home and get some sleep.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

because there are figurative uses for evening and morning in the scriptures which are linked to the 7th day of genesis.The Apostle Paul explained that we are living in an 'evening period' and that the morning was approaching Romans 13:11 "[Do] this, too, because YOU people know the season, that it is already the hour for YOU to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12The night (evening) is well along; the day (morning) has drawn near..." Recall that Paul also mentioned that the 7th creative day was still in progress. We know the jewish day begins in the evening, so we are in the evening of that 7th day and in the above scripture Pauls words show that mankinds salvation is linked with the coming of a new day....the morning. When all that God has purposed for the earth and mankind has come to fruition, then the evening and morning will come to their completion as they did with the previous 6 creative periods.Im not saying ALL instances are figurative. Figurative words are determined by associated scriptures such as the one above where Paul goes deeper into the subject. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

i guess its because of surrounding verses which use the word figuratively1. all 6 days are called 1 day showing that the creation account does use a figurative sense of yom.2. Moses wrote that God was still resting in gen 2:33. Hebrews chpt 4 tells us that God is still resting4. Paul talks about Gods Sabbath5. there is also the phyical earthly evidence suggesting a very old earththere is too much evidence that suggests otherwise.

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But what are the 'indicators' of what determines its figurative use?

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In one breath you are saying there are gramatical indicators to show a literal definition, so now show us the indicators for the figurative in this verse.

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When there are literal meanings for a word and figurative meanings for a word, there are indicators within the language to tell us a figurative meaning is to be chosen. A literal definition usually needs no indicators. Yom is one that needs no indicators for the literal. You have been shown this several times.Leaven is a substance that is used to produce fermentation in dough or liquid. There are no other meanings for the word. It is what it is.Symbolism also goes back to historical background. Leaven was a symbol for hypocrisy, corruption, or evil. It doesn't symbolize that for the general population today.When it comes to symbols and idioms, the scholars have done the research to enable us to understand these types of phrases. There is no way to discern these types of things from the text unless the writer explains it at some point like the writer did for Matthew 16:5-6. The explanation is in verse 12. Again, leaven is not a multiple meaning word. This is not the same type of situation as the word yom.

What version do you get that from? every one I read uses night and day, figuratively of course.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

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Purpledawn, in Message 9 you said I don't see a figurative meaning for the word ge/earth.

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Correct, no figurative meaning is given in the Lexicon.

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so in Message 20 when i ask you if the meaning of the verse is literal you say

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purpledawn writes:

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I guess that's a no. You dont understand...

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You didn't ask me if the meaning of the verse was literal. you asked: Ok, so will the earth/ge be destroyed according to 2 Peter?

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What am i not understanding? That the earth in this verse is figurative as you have indicated you agree with??? Or is it something else?

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Since you asked that question, which has nothing to do with understanding the meaning of the word ge, that tells me that you don't understand the difference between the definition of the word and the meaning of the sentence.The common meaning of the word ge is used and it isn't used figuratively. IOW, there is no figurative technique or language involving the word ge.

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Im not intersest in the literal definition of the word 'ge', im interested in how you came to the view that in this verse its to be taken figuratively. I have explained how we come to a figurative explaination, now tell me how you came to it....was it by some gramatical 'indicator'? if so, what is that indicator?

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I didn't say the verse should be taken figuratively. (That really doesn't mean anything.)In Message 23, I said: There is figurative language within the verse. In verse 11 the writer even says: The author doesn't tell us this is a vision. He is very clear that everything will be destroyed. He is also clear that heaven and earth will be restored or rebuilt.The difference is, I don't assume that ge refers to the planet and you do. From what I have found out the planet was not named at that time. So earth cannot refer to the name of the planet. If you want to argue that point, go to the appropriate thread. (Not The Planet)As far as this thread goes, ge has no figurative definition and the common meaning of earth or land is to be applied in 2 Peter 3:10.

Yea, in a different context, with different qualifying words. I told you: every other time yom is preceded by a number, it is meaning a literal day. The examples I showed you used it that way and you admitted it meant a literal 24 hour day......except for genesis.Now, what makes genesis 1 so special? Let's not go into actual physical extra-biblical evidence, peg. The whole bible story falls apart then.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

which is exactly my point.You however claimed that the indicators are located in the sentence alone.
In your OP you stated Now are you agreeing with me that other verses help to identify a figurative use?

my bible uses night and day as well...the night we know as evening and the morning is day. Likewise genesis says the light is day and the dark is nighti'm attempting to show the correlation between Pauls words here in relation to the 7th day.

as usual you have officially confused me yet again.So tell me, what what do you think 'ge' is according to the verse?

What would you think if genesis 2 was a part of genesis 1?I ask this because the divisions of the bible books were not made by the writer. The book of genesis was not divided by chapters and verses. It was all one piece of writing. This puts the figurative yom of gen 2:4 as a part of the creation account preceeding it.We cannot assume that gen 2 is a different story. It was written as one continuous account originally.

I'm trying to find the hebrew version because every other version I read has "evening and morning" in genesis, and "night and day" in the verse you mentioned. Kind of a big difference, eh? I can't see that the words are interchangeable.

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"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

from the hebrew interlinearGen 1:5
andhe-is-calling Elohim totheLIGHT DAY andtotheDARKNESS he-calls NIGHT andhe-is-becoming EVENING andhe-is-becoming MORNING day one (yom echad)Day 2 = Yom sheni = a second
Day 3 = Yom Shelishi = a third
Day 4 = Yom Revii = a forth
Day 5 = Yom Khamishi = a fifth
Day 6 = Yom hashishi = a sixthEdited by Peg, : No reason given.