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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 8 of 1960 (559192)
05-07-2010 10:54 AM


We should teach science. I don't think anyone really disagrees. The theory of evolution is the most important theory in the field of biology, so it is important that it be taught. If students do want to pursue a career in the life sciences then they must have a basic understanding of the theory before going on to university.

For religion, I think there is a way to approach the material that will benefit students. The best way to do this, IMHO, is to teach kids about other cultures and how religion plays a role in those cultures. Students could discuss how religion has helped to mold the political views of each culture, and how it relates to international relations. In today's world students should know the difference between Sunni's and Shi'a and how the friction between these sects has shaped the politics of the Middle East. I know from my college years that it is impossible to discuss the development of Western Civilization without discussing the emergence of Protestantism, Calvinism, etc. By incorporating religious education with history/civics I believe the material can be covered in an objective and informative manner.


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 68 of 1960 (573743)
08-12-2010 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by archaeologist
08-11-2010 6:47 PM


the idea of 'predicitions is just anothe rtool to lead people away from the truth. since creation was a one time supernatural act, we do not need to predict anything, we know what will take place and how things came to be.

A perfect example of what happens when religion is allowed into the science classroom. Scientific method? Out the window. Only dogma is allowed here.

Perhaps archaeologist can tell us how a christian is supposed to construct a testable hypothesis, per the scientific method?


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 78 of 1960 (573831)
08-12-2010 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by archaeologist
08-12-2010 7:45 PM


this is an example of the blind faith some people have in science and it shows that they do not want to know the bad things that take place in that field and that their 'scientific method' is at the whim of subjective, fallible humans.

The whole point of a hypothesis is to test to see if you are right or not. A hypothesis exposes fallibility. How else but through testing and experimentation can you find out if you are wrong or right? But then again, this is why you want to get rid of the scientific method. It does away with dogma.

to answer it i am going to liberally quote an article that demonstrates the weakness of the 'scientific method'. I will give you the details of the source after i finish quoting oh and do not let your bias blind you to the facts.

So they used the scientific method to disprove a claim? Sounds like the method is quite useful to me.

Also, you do know that the COBE and WMAP satellites have accurately measured temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, right? Or are you in full denial mode?


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 92 of 1960 (573866)
08-12-2010 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by archaeologist
08-12-2010 8:27 PM


your reaction to contradiction is normal because no one likes to feel that their chosen authority is wrong and does things the wrong way. your reactions are all very emotional and unscientific.

My chosen authority is reality. What is yours?

hypothesis: guns and bullets may kill people.

I thought christians didn't make predictions?

What are you saying? That in order to see if something is true you make a prediction and then test it? Really? That's not what you said before:

"the idea of 'predicitions is just anothe rtool to lead people away from the truth."

That is what you said, and yet here you are making a prediction. Are you trying to lead people away from the truth? And where did you insert God into your hypothesis? Are you now using secular science?

you do not need to be a scientist to learn about or experiment with something.

But you do need the scientific method, something which you reject.

this is the reason i do not take most of you seriously, my quoted article was written in 2001 and it is just plain common sense to think that in the last 9 years a machine could have been invented to measure such small items BUT it doesn't change the fact that scientists do not follow their own rules {and fib about their discoveries} and i doubt they do now even with all their new machinery.

How else, but through scientific investigation, could you claim the following?

"With more than 300 million measurements, the astronomers discovered ripples of matter near the edge of the universe. How did they know this? The measurements were all of temperature taken by sensors pointed in different directions from the earth. In averaging the 300 million measurements, astronomers found a temperature difference in different parts ofthe universe. How big was the difference? One report stated 30 millionths of one degree; another said 10 millionths of one degree.
The study cost $400 million and 28 years of work by many scientists. Shortly after the announcement there came an embarrassed silence. Apparently there is no instrument in the world that can measure such an infinitesimal difference. Presumably a gnat flying across a sensor 100 miles distant would create a greater temperature difference. All that had evidently happened in the study was averaging an almost infinite number of meaningless measurement errors."

Did you use science to figure this out, or did God tell you about this in the Bible? Even more, I don't see anywhere in the quote where you used God to explain the sensitivity of the equipment that they used. Are you using secular science again?

face it, science is rife with those who do not do things the scientific method . . .

Why do you care, since you reject the method anyway?


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 93 of 1960 (573869)
08-12-2010 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by archaeologist
08-12-2010 8:36 PM


no,it is not false, you just want it to be.

Then show us a supernatural hypothesis and the experiments which verified it.

you hide behind your tests and refuse to check the honesty of them or if you have the right questions or attitude.

Why do you care, since you reject the scientific method anyway?

you forget the mitigating factors like peer jealousy, peer fabrication and you have forgotten to learn your lessons from the myriad of hoaxes that plaque the evolutionary field.

How can you determine if something is a hoax without applying the scientific method, a method that you reject?

the truth never changes, one may discover it but it has always been the truth from the beginning.

Need I quote christians from the past who said that the Bible supported a solar system where the Sun orbited the Earth?


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 150 of 1960 (659520)
04-16-2012 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by OpticalIllusions
04-16-2012 7:36 AM


Kids should only learn about religions in school that their parents say are okay for them to learn.

We already have places that will do that. In fact, they don't even charge an attendance fee. They are called "churches". You should look into it.

Why do we need public schools to teach religion? Why do you want the government in the evangelist business? That seems like a recipe for disaster.


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 154 of 1960 (659557)
04-16-2012 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Artemis Entreri
04-16-2012 5:08 PM


Re: ugh acronyms
man i hate acronyms. is Poe an acronym (POE?) and what does it mean?

Named after Nathan Poe over at Christian forums who once quiped that it is impossible to tell the difference between a serious fundamentalist (or conservative) and someone doing a parody of a fundamentalist because fundamentalists say the stupidest things. The Landover Baptist site is a good example.


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 677 of 1960 (742927)
11-25-2014 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by frako
11-23-2014 4:49 PM


How about a compromise, Creationists of any sort get 10 minutes to "teach" their theory in a science class but, they get their 10 minutes at the end of the class and they have to sit trough the whole class before and not bother the students.

I have a better idea.

We alot time in the classroom based on peer reviewed research papers. The percentage of primary publications that use creationism will equate to the percentage of time it is given in science class. That would certainly work for me.


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(4)
Message 955 of 1960 (808124)
05-08-2017 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 953 by Davidjay
05-08-2017 11:55 AM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
Davidjay writes:

No keep, schools for knowledge rather than theories. Teach facts and separate religion and the state.

Let's start a list of what Davidjay does not want taught in science class.

1. Matter is made up of individual atoms (Atom theory).
2. Infectious diseases are caused by microorganisms (Germ Theory of Disease).
3. Time and distance change in different inertial frames (Theory of Relativity).
4. Light acts as a particle or a wave (quantum theory).

Those are just 4 off the top of my head. What you are really asking people to do is not teach science, period. The entire reason we have the scientific method is to create theories. The goal of science is to create theories.


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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(3)
Message 959 of 1960 (808386)
05-10-2017 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 958 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 11:55 AM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
They need to be taught the scientific method,

So what is the scientific method, as you define it?

they need tools for discernment rather than forced indocrination.

My irony meter just exploded.

Force them to study and learn numbers and times tables, and letters and sounds, as does the 3rd world students learn.

Do you think memorizing facts is the scientific method?


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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 961 of 1960 (808404)
05-10-2017 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 960 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 2:42 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
Davidjay writes:

I repeat, memorizing letters and vowel sounds help students learn to read. It takes some work to learn. Its not all luck and chance.
It takes some hard memory work in mathematics tables before mathematics makes more sense, rather than the dumbing down insane mathematics of today taught in our dumbing dowen schools. I repeat 3rd world countries have a better education system than the so called 1st world countries.

Knowing basics helps liberate one to discerning higher up truths and laws.

Luck and chance evolutionists have no applications in any other field of science. Its wasted time and effort learning nothingness that helps in no way.

Separate school and state and religion in our classrooms. Will it happen NO, because evolution is part of todays religion because todays religion is materialism, work for the man, work for the education system, work for a paycheck as the evolutionists do.

You said students should learn the scientific method. What is the scientific method, according to you?


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Replies to this message:
 Message 963 by Davidjay, posted 05-10-2017 3:00 PM Taq has responded
 Message 969 by Davidjay, posted 05-11-2017 12:56 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 964 of 1960 (808418)
05-10-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 963 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 3:00 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
Davidjay writes:

Whats your opinion of school and state ? Separation or Not, that is the question and topic HERE.
I have stated many times and in different ways why I say separate the two, so if you differ, explain. If you agree then explain.

Stick to the topic......

Are you afraid to agree with me, because if so, then it means again you will be judging subjectively not objectively.

The opposite of school and state seaoaration is school and state union.....as in the school system dictating that only their secular uniformed unitelligent, undesigned evolutionary religion can be taught in schools and forced upon students.

Choose which side you are on in this debate.

Have some courage and state your alignment .

You said that schools should teach the scientific method. What do you think the scientific method is? Can you describe it or not?


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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(2)
Message 966 of 1960 (808423)
05-10-2017 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 965 by Davidjay
05-10-2017 3:23 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
Davidjay writes:

As mentioned, please state what side of the debate you are on......
Stick to the topic, or say you dont know what side you are on, or what your principles are.

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/Proveit.html

Do you or do you not think that science classes should teach the scientific method? I am on the side that says schools should teach the scientific method. What about you?


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 971 of 1960 (808551)
05-11-2017 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 969 by Davidjay
05-11-2017 12:56 PM


Re: Separate school and state and religion
Davidjay writes:

the scienctific method, we all agree on, should be taught so they can have discernment rather than them being forced into compliance with every wierd doctrine that comes along.

What do you mean by "scientific method"? What is it, according to you?


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 972 of 1960 (808552)
05-11-2017 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 970 by Davidjay
05-11-2017 12:57 PM


Re: Got ya again .. Think bat think
Davidjay writes:

In which science course did they talk about bats turning into people....

In which Sunday School class did they teach you to lie about what other people say?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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