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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 799 of 2058 (744225)
12-09-2014 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 797 by Colbard
12-09-2014 7:30 AM


To troll or not to troll?
There are different ideas as to what makes a person a troll, but IMO, essentially what it boils down to is someone who continually posts with the express intention of invoking an emotional response. And then when they get the emotional response they wanted, they decry how impossible it is to have a productive conversation because of the emotional responses. The troll rarely, if ever, presents actual arguments, but focuses on the fault of his / her opponents for derailing the discussion.

So does that description fit you? If so, you might be a troll. If not present your actual arguments.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 7:30 AM Colbard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 802 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:51 AM herebedragons has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(4)
Message 809 of 2058 (744268)
12-09-2014 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 802 by Colbard
12-09-2014 8:51 AM


Re: To troll or not to troll?
So now, if people don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions and feelings, anybody can be blamed for an inconvenient response and be called a troll and banned? Is that how it works?

Not sure where anyone mentioned banning. It is simply that you wondered why you were being called a troll and I explained to you the way I see it.

If you are so sensitive and offended at anything that might challenge your view on evolution, what are you doing here, responding to me in such a thread? It's like watching a movie you hate isn't it?

Not offended at all. Nothing in my response was an emotional reaction. There is just not that much at stake on an internet forum. And you certainly haven't said ANYTHING that challenges MY view on evolution, not even the slightest.

I cannot be blamed for trolling when you are the one compelled to do things which annoy you.

Actually, I usually just ignore members like you and don't post much in response because I know it will not be productive. If you actually presented an argument, I might weigh in, but all you are doing is strutting around. No thanks.

I just wanted you to know why people think you are trolling, and you proved my point.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 802 by Colbard, posted 12-09-2014 8:51 AM Colbard has taken no action

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 810 of 2058 (744269)
12-09-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 805 by Dr Adequate
12-09-2014 9:24 AM


Re: Carbon dating coins
Carbon dating is the holy grail of evolution. It's entire structure rests on that poor brick ...

Can anyone possibly be so ignorant as to believe this?

I thought the Crocoduck was the Holy Grail of evolution. Wish I could find one of those!

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 805 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-09-2014 9:24 AM Dr Adequate has taken no action

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 89 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 851 of 2058 (744439)
12-11-2014 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 837 by dwise1
12-10-2014 8:19 PM


Re: To the last few replies
my understanding is that it's when they learn actual science and realize that they had been lied to all their life. However, a blog I read a few years ago (link no longer available) cited a study that showed that it's the humanities in college that lead to far more deconversions than science does. According to that study, it is due to their learning that other perpectives exist, ways of looking at things other than their own, and of looking at things through other perspectives, as well as understanding those other perspectives, plus learning to examine all perspectives objectively, including their own, which are all what happens in history, literature, and philosophy classes.

As I was reading the first part of this paragraph, I was thinking I needed to respond that it is not the actual science that gets people its being taught how to actually think things through. Philosophy is a dangerous subject for young fundamentalists to take. As you said, once you are exposed to other perspectives and you learn how to analyze them and scrutinize them, beliefs that are held without strong basis, quickly crumble.

Ironically, the course that had the biggest impact on my faith/belief system was World Literature. Two of the works we read (excerpts, of course) were Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost. These stories were a huge "light bulb" moment for me. I realized that much of our images of heaven, hell and the Adam and Eve story were based on these works of literature, not on actual scripture. I vowed then that I would allow any belief I had to be subject to scrutiny and that I would be willing to let go of any belief that I held on to that did not hold up.

I have not lost my faith by any means, in fact I would say it has made my faith stronger. I no longer need to feel like I need to just believe something but not know why. I need to dig deeper, so to speak, and figure out why I believe what I believe. Unfortunately, the message so many fundamentalists have is it is all-or-nothing; believe what they say or else you may as well be an atheist. That is the message that I so strongly oppose in creation science.

The choice could not be any clearer.

I agree.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by dwise1, posted 12-10-2014 8:19 PM dwise1 has taken no action

  
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