Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,821 Year: 3,078/9,624 Month: 923/1,588 Week: 106/223 Day: 4/13 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1779 of 2073 (878902)
07-06-2020 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1777 by Trump won
07-06-2020 6:10 PM


The vital nuance they deserve in my opinion is a flush.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1777 by Trump won, posted 07-06-2020 6:10 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1780 by Trump won, posted 07-07-2020 1:54 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


(1)
Message 1785 of 2073 (878913)
07-07-2020 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1780 by Trump won
07-07-2020 1:54 AM


No, evolution needs the flush. God did design intelligently of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1780 by Trump won, posted 07-07-2020 1:54 AM Trump won has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1787 by vimesey, posted 07-07-2020 5:07 AM dad has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1786 of 2073 (878914)
07-07-2020 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1783 by Tangle
07-07-2020 2:25 AM


Ha. A pope buying into evolution and the BB. Amazing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1783 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2020 2:25 AM Tangle has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1864 of 2073 (879164)
07-12-2020 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1855 by Straggler
07-12-2020 5:29 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
quote:
So you want to replace evolution as the mechanism by which species originate with....what?
Why would a belief need replacement? The evolving we see is here today. In the past, you don't really know how evolution worked or what evolved from what or where it started.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1855 by Straggler, posted 07-12-2020 5:29 AM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1866 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 3:32 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1868 of 2073 (879180)
07-12-2020 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1866 by Kleinman
07-12-2020 3:32 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Right, so evolution is real and happens. But the process of evolution itself is not responsible for life on earth. That is just a belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1866 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 3:32 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1880 of 2073 (879319)
07-14-2020 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1876 by Kleinman
07-14-2020 1:21 PM


Impossible is not probable
Probability depends on what factors are used to determine what is probable. It isn't really applicable to TOE. They use beliefs to determine what was 'probable'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1876 by Kleinman, posted 07-14-2020 1:21 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1882 by Kleinman, posted 07-14-2020 3:40 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1881 of 2073 (879320)
07-14-2020 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1879 by Straggler
07-14-2020 3:18 PM


Achilles tendon
The probability of rapid adapting in the past is not an issue, but a matter of record. We see all the skin changes and etc and know the timeframe it happened in. Science bases what is probable on the way things work today. That is their fatal flaw.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1879 by Straggler, posted 07-14-2020 3:18 PM Straggler has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1887 of 2073 (879353)
07-15-2020 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1882 by Kleinman
07-14-2020 3:40 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
quote:
Why can't you use probability theory on evolution?
The same reasons that we can't say it is not probable that wolves will eat grass and lions will eat grass one day soon. The basis for what is probable cannot be this present world and nature. For the past this holds true also.
quote:
After all, the mutation rate is simply the probability that an error on DNA replication will occur at the given site in a single replication
Genetics do not appear to be the same as now in the future in the bible. The changes to animals will be fast, lightning fast. The changes to mankind also will be. They will live a thousand years again for example. It is not the mutation rate that will be responsible for this. It sounds more like a new set of laws working on animals and man and the world will be responsible. Nothing random about it.
The same holds true of the past. The way genetics worked was simply not the same and not under the current laws. We cannot use the way things now work in this temporary nature as the basis for what was or will be probable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1882 by Kleinman, posted 07-14-2020 3:40 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1889 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 1:03 PM dad has replied
 Message 1890 by Kleinman, posted 07-15-2020 1:47 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1892 of 2073 (879381)
07-15-2020 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1889 by AZPaul3
07-15-2020 1:03 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
The evidence is that we have no evidence nature was the same or, therefore genetics was working the same. Your fail to produce any is evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1889 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 1:03 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1894 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 3:58 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1893 of 2073 (879384)
07-15-2020 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1890 by Kleinman
07-15-2020 1:47 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
quote:
You should do a little more research on the subject, canines and felines already do eat grass.
The issue is that lions and wolves will eat plants rather than being carnivorous. Not whether some dog may eat a little grass. Missing that is missing the forest for the trees.
quote:
DNA evolution is no different that any other type of stochastic process such as coin tossing, dice rolling, card drawing, etc. That's why when you do the math properly, you can predict the evolutionary process and do DNA identification. Do you doubt the validity of DNA identification because this is done based on the rules of probability theory.
We can predict things based on the processes in place that we observe. You cannot assume those same processes existed in the past and that what is now probable was also probable in the past. If we predict that a group of people that were relocated, for example, to a hot place in Africa would see inherited skin colour change is say, 3000 years, based on how fast DNA changes and adaptation and etc work, that is only true as long as it is the same for that time. To apply probability based on observed features of the present nature to life way back in Adam or Noah's day iis to assume that all things were and remained the same. Unless you know they did, you cannot use probability.
quote:
You have to play the hand your are dealt. The only real examples of evolution we have available which can be measured and repeated are experiments such as the Kishony and Lenski experiments.
The issue with the theory of the evolution of life has to do with the hand God dealt animals and people and nature long ago, not what hand we are dealt now.
quote:
You can only say with certainty how genetics works right now. Why would you think that genetics worked differently in the past and will work differently in the future?
Right, you can only speak to how things work now. Science cannot say that either things were the same or not, and whether things will be the same or not. So as far as science goes all we can say is we don't know.
As far as the bible goes, we know all kinds of animals on earth were in one place on one boat something like, say 4500 years ago. There is no way all the millions of species could have adapted from one kind of each animal that long ago if the present nature had been in place. Nor any way plants could grow hyper fast, or people live 1000 years etc. Similarly, in the future spoken of in the bible, we could not have the present nature in place. One example is that animals will change from carnivorous, to cud chewers and vegetarians, and this will happen in a very short time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1890 by Kleinman, posted 07-15-2020 1:47 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1901 by Kleinman, posted 07-16-2020 10:02 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1895 of 2073 (879397)
07-15-2020 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1894 by AZPaul3
07-15-2020 3:58 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
Science says it was the same and that the present is the key to the past. How this works is you better prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1894 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 3:58 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1896 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 5:25 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1898 of 2073 (879416)
07-16-2020 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1897 by Phat
07-15-2020 11:51 PM


get to er
My point also. Any science claim that uses a basis of a same nature in the past ads true and valid needs reasonable evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1897 by Phat, posted 07-15-2020 11:51 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1902 by ringo, posted 07-16-2020 12:27 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1899 of 2073 (879417)
07-16-2020 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1896 by AZPaul3
07-15-2020 5:25 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
quote:
So you have nothing to evidence your contention that the laws of nature were different long ago.
So you have nothing to evidence your contention that the laws of nature were the same long ago. Got it. It is not my contention that science knows, that would be your contention. I am happy to go with the records of the past we do have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1896 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 5:25 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1900 by AZPaul3, posted 07-16-2020 7:41 AM dad has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1903 of 2073 (879439)
07-16-2020 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1902 by ringo
07-16-2020 12:27 PM


Re: get to er
Any science claim that uses a basis of a same nature in the past ads true and valid needs reasonable evidence.
Post where you claim it was done and it will be shown to be basically belief based religious fable telling.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1902 by ringo, posted 07-16-2020 12:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1911 by ringo, posted 07-17-2020 12:22 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1338 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1904 of 2073 (879440)
07-16-2020 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1901 by Kleinman
07-16-2020 10:02 AM


Re: Impossible is not probable
quote:
Dig a little deeper:
Get Your Paws on These Vegan Dog and Cat Food Products
If you are claiming that special diets for carnivores is fulfilling what the bible says about lions eating grass, then you have no respect for Scripture. Seriously? We are told serpents will no longer be dangerous, lions will lay with the lamb and play with toddlers safely etc. Obviously this requites very fundamental changes in nature.
quote:
And you can't assume that things worked differently in the past unless you have some evidence to do so
And you can't assume that things worked the same in the past unless you have some evidence to do so. Nor can you use recent scientific experiments about how things now work, and apply this to an unknown future or past.
quote:
Are you talking about abiogenesis or the TOE? Because both are shown to be mathematically irrational theories by probability theory
The TOE. (abiogenesis is such a total fable it doesn't matter) If all evolving started with the first man and woman and animals, then how could we run math on that? If adapting was as fast as the timeframe Scriptre indicates, there is no way modern rates applied. So using modern evolving rates and realities as a basis for the numbers to run math is not possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1901 by Kleinman, posted 07-16-2020 10:02 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1905 by Kleinman, posted 07-16-2020 2:29 PM dad has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024