Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 85 (8984 total)
42 online now:
DrJones*, PaulK (2 members, 40 visitors)
Newest Member: Jerry Johnson
Upcoming Birthdays: Diomedes
Post Volume: Total: 877,570 Year: 9,318/23,288 Month: 333/1,544 Week: 47/561 Day: 0/47 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Taq
Member
Posts: 8409
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 1.9


(3)
Message 1621 of 1774 (878115)
06-25-2020 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1620 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 4:44 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

So you think that Tiktaalik could have just as easily been a tripod or a pentapod?

"Mr. Kleinman, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."--from the movie "Billy Madison"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1620 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 4:44 PM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1622 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:08 PM Taq has responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1622 of 1774 (878118)
06-25-2020 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1621 by Taq
06-25-2020 4:47 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

So you think that Tiktaalik could have just as easily been a tripod or a pentapod?

Taq writes:

"Mr. Kleinman, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."--from the movie "Billy Madison"


You said, "If you think there is only one possible mutation in a whole genome for every single adaptation, and that there is only one possible and specific adaptation for every environmental challenge, then you need to get out into the real world." Perhaps Tiktaalik could have evolved into an octopod or a centipod or even a millipod. I've seen replicators like that in the real world. Are you now telling us that it is an impossible adaptation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1621 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 4:47 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1623 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 5:10 PM Kleinman has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8409
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1623 of 1774 (878119)
06-25-2020 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1622 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 5:08 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

Perhaps Tiktaalik could have evolved into an octopod or a centipod or even a millipod. I've seen replicators like that in the real world. Are you now telling us that it is an impossible adaptation?

Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led to those adaptations?

Use your brain. I promise, it won't hurt.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1622 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:08 PM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1624 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:33 PM Taq has responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1624 of 1774 (878122)
06-25-2020 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1623 by Taq
06-25-2020 5:10 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

Perhaps Tiktaalik could have evolved into an octopod or a centipod or even a millipod. I've seen replicators like that in the real world. Are you now telling us that it is an impossible adaptation?

Taq writes:

Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led to those adaptations?


Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led it to be a tetrapod?
Taq writes:

Use your brain. I promise, it won't hurt.


The brain actually doesn't have any pain receptors

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1623 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 5:10 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1625 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 5:37 PM Kleinman has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8409
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1625 of 1774 (878123)
06-25-2020 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1624 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 5:33 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led it to be a tetrapod?

I will take that as a tacit admission that the Kishony experiment does not apply.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1624 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:33 PM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1626 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 6:08 PM Taq has responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1626 of 1774 (878128)
06-25-2020 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1625 by Taq
06-25-2020 5:37 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led it to be a tetrapod?

Taq writes:

I will take that as a tacit admission that the Kishony experiment does not apply.


I will take that as a tacit admission that you have no idea what went on with Tiktaalik genetically. But we do know what goes on with the Kishony experiment. Why do you deny the evidence showing that eukaryotic DNA evolution works the same way as bacterial DNA evolution?
Eukaryotic Adaptation to Years-Long Starvation Resembles that of Bacteria

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1625 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 5:37 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1627 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 6:10 PM Kleinman has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8409
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1627 of 1774 (878129)
06-25-2020 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1626 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 6:08 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

I will take that as a tacit admission that you have no idea what went on with Tiktaalik genetically.

Until you can show that there was only a single mutation at a single base that led to tetrapods then you can't apply the Kishony experiment.

Why do you deny the evidence showing that eukaryotic DNA evolution works the same way as bacterial DNA evolution?

You are the one denying the existence of sexual reproduction.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1626 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 6:08 PM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1628 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 6:38 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1628 of 1774 (878131)
06-25-2020 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1627 by Taq
06-25-2020 6:10 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:

I will take that as a tacit admission that you have no idea what went on with Tiktaalik genetically.

Taq writes:

Until you can show that there was only a single mutation at a single base that led to tetrapods then you can't apply the Kishony experiment.


What was the number of replications necessary that you came up with if there are two possible beneficial mutations? Wasn't that 1.5e9? Do you want to make it 10 possible beneficial mutations? And how about the next evolutionary step? Do you have 10 or maybe even 100 possible beneficial mutations? Just how many genes and mutations do you need to make a replicator without legs evolve legs?
Kleinman writes:

Why do you deny the evidence showing that eukaryotic DNA evolution works the same way as bacterial DNA evolution?

Taq writes:

You are the one denying the existence of sexual reproduction.


I've never said that you were cloned. You are a bit of a drone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1627 by Taq, posted 06-25-2020 6:10 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1629 of 1774 (878145)
06-26-2020 9:52 AM


A question about Tiktaalik
This post and question are directed at Straggler but any members of your clique can try to answer it.

My question has to do with Tiktaalik. If I understand you correctly, you contend that Tiktaalik is a transitional form of some kind of aquatic replicator without limbs (I guess, something like an eel) and ground-dwelling tetrapods. Could you explain to all of us what coding and regulatory genes are required for the formation of limbs and what is the selection pressure that would select for the formation of those appendages?


Replies to this message:
 Message 1630 by AZPaul3, posted 06-26-2020 10:42 AM Kleinman has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5118
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 1630 of 1774 (878149)
06-26-2020 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1629 by Kleinman
06-26-2020 9:52 AM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
That is a bullshit question and you know it.

No one has the sequences that you so dishonestly ask for in order to answer that asinine question. Besides, there were most certainly a couple handfuls of tiktaalik species over many thousands of years each with incremental changes that led to land tetrapods. But you're so deeply buried in your inapplicable math you don't even know how ignorant you are of the evolution you try to destroy.

This is exactly the kind of intellectually dishonest BS we expect from crackpots.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1629 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 9:52 AM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1631 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 11:04 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1631 of 1774 (878150)
06-26-2020 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1630 by AZPaul3
06-26-2020 10:42 AM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
AZPaul3 writes:

That is a bullshit question and you know it.
No one has the sequences that you so dishonestly ask for in order to answer that asinine question. Besides, there were most certainly a couple handfuls of tiktaalik species over many thousands of years each with incremental changes that led to land tetrapods. But you're so deeply buried in your inapplicable math you don't even know how ignorant you are of the evolution you try to destroy.

This is exactly the kind of intellectually dishonest BS we expect from crackpots.


We'll take that as an "I don't know" from Mr. 1 to indeterminant.

So you think all the geneticists and biologists with the knowledge of all the genetics we have today can't identify the genes which code for limb growth? I guess this reference isn't in your reading list:
The gene code of growing limbs

There are many other references to this subject, but you should continue with sources appropriate to your intellect, comic books. You should limit your posts to the "Faith and Belief" forum. You really aren't prepared for any type of scientific discussion.

Any in AZPaul3's clique with scientific training and experience want to try and answer the question: Could you explain to all of us what coding and regulatory genes are required for the formation of limbs and what is the selection pressure that would select for the formation of those appendages?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1630 by AZPaul3, posted 06-26-2020 10:42 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1632 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-26-2020 11:41 AM Kleinman has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2371
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1632 of 1774 (878154)
06-26-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1631 by Kleinman
06-26-2020 11:04 AM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
Could you explain to all of us what coding and regulatory genes are required for the formation of limbs and what is the selection pressure that would select for the formation of those appendages?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1631 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 11:04 AM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1633 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 11:50 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1633 of 1774 (878156)
06-26-2020 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1632 by Tanypteryx
06-26-2020 11:41 AM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
Tanypteryx writes:

Could you explain to all of us what coding and regulatory genes are required for the formation of limbs and what is the selection pressure that would select for the formation of those appendages?


I'm not the one claiming that Tiktaalik is a transitional form to tetrapods. I'm the one explaining to you the physics and mathematics of DNA evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1632 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-26-2020 11:41 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1634 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-26-2020 12:36 PM Kleinman has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2371
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 1634 of 1774 (878162)
06-26-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1633 by Kleinman
06-26-2020 11:50 AM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
Kleinman writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Could you explain to all of us what coding and regulatory genes are required for the formation of limbs and what is the selection pressure that would select for the formation of those appendages?


I'm not the one claiming that Tiktaalik is a transitional form to tetrapods. I'm the one explaining to you the physics and mathematics of DNA evolution.

Ah, so you can't explain it.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1633 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 11:50 AM Kleinman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1635 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 12:50 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Kleinman
Member
Posts: 386
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1635 of 1774 (878164)
06-26-2020 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1634 by Tanypteryx
06-26-2020 12:36 PM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
Kleinman writes:

I'm not the one claiming that Tiktaalik is a transitional form to tetrapods. I'm the one explaining to you the physics and mathematics of DNA evolution.

Tanypteryx writes:

Could you explain to all of us what coding and regulatory genes are required for the formation of limbs and what is the selection pressure that would select for the formation of those appendages?

Kleinman writes:

I'm not the one claiming that Tiktaalik is a transitional form to tetrapods. I'm the one explaining to you the physics and mathematics of DNA evolution.

Tanypteryx writes:

Ah, so you can't explain it.


Why should I do your job? I've already given you the correct mathematics of DNA evolution. The only thing you have demonstrated so far is that you are ignorant and vulgar. Show us some of your brilliant scientific acumens or join AZPaul3 on the Faith and Belief forum where your pseudo-scientific beliefs belong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1634 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-26-2020 12:36 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1636 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-26-2020 1:57 PM Kleinman has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020