|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
dad Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
quote:Animals that eat grass usually are ruminants. In fact the bible says they will grass like the ox. So there is no mystery here. Unless you claim that wolves and lions will develop dual stomachs in a matter of weeks, your attempt at diversion is overthrown. [/quote] False, I do not assume I live as long as Noah, or that trees grow in weeks, nor that spirits marry women. I assume we are in this present nature where realities are different. quote: "Stochastic - Wikipedia Stochastic refers to a randomly determined process.." I see no reason to claim that adaptation depended on anything random in the former nature. Why should I?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
Because that is how drug-resistant bacteria evolve and the reason cancer treatments fail. And the reason that combination therapy works for the treatment of hiv is the multiplication rule of probabilities.
Do you think there was a time when the multiplication rule of probabilities did not apply in a stochastic process?dad writes: "Stochastic - Wikipedia Stochastic refers to a randomly determined process.." I see no reason to claim that adaptation depended on anything random in the former nature. Why should I?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
dad Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
How anything adapts and evolves over the course of decades or years or months has nothing to do with the far past and how things adapted then. You are trying to base what is probable on ignorance.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Kleinman writes:
Well if we didn't think you were a crank before, this nails it! The foods in your Peta link are not something a carnivore could find in the wild, so yeah, carnivores can't live on naturally available plants and need meat, as they are, as you know, carnivores.
No, what I am saying is there is evidence today that carnivores can survive on non-meat diets. Where is your evidence from the past or future that says carnivores can only survive on meat?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
I stand corrected. So, is the correct phylogenetic tree for carnivores? Bananas=>Venous Fly Trap=>Tiktaalik =>t Rex? Of course, there are a couple of transitional nodes left out. Is it true that t Rex was green because it still retained the ability to produce chlorophyll?
No, what I am saying is there is evidence today that carnivores can survive on non-meat diets. Where is your evidence from the past or future that says carnivores can only survive on meat?kjsimons writes: Well if we didn't think you were a crank before, this nails it! The foods in your Peta link are not something a carnivore could find in the wild, so yeah, carnivores can't live on naturally available plants and need meat, as they are, as you know, carnivores.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dad writes:
And we have it, whether you understand it or not.
Any science claim that uses a basis of a same nature in the past ads true and valid needs reasonable evidence. dad writes:
As I've told you more than once, try RAZD's threads on correlations. So far, you haven't shown anything there. Post where you claim it was done and it will be shown to be basically belief based religious fable telling."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
dad Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
You posted nothing of interest or value there. Why pretend. I think the thread is still active, you should dredge up some item there you think was unfairly treated or valuable, etc.
Edited by dad, : No reason given. Edited by dad, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dad writes:
Are you talking to yourself? YOU are the one who's trying to overthrow the status quo in science. Do you really think you can do that with nothing but denial? You posted nothing of interest or value there. Why pretend. I think the thread is still active, you should dredge up some item there you think was unfairly treated or valuable, etc."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
dad Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
quote: Why would I need to overthrow a religion? They are entitled to believe whatever they like. When you claim that specific aspects of the models of the past that science uses are more than a belief, you must provide real evidence and a reasoned case. Edited by dad, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dad writes:
Why else are you here? Why would I need to overthrow a religion?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You seem to have missed it so let’s try again.
I need you to tell me the probability of fair skin, blue eyes, lactase persistence and alcohol tolerance all having evolved during the mesolithic (i.e when the total number of humans that had ever lived was about 400 million according to your link).You do it. It’s your calculation. You were desperate to show how bewilderingly impossible evolution was earlier when talking about chimpanzees and whatnot. Let’s see what your calculations say about the likelihood of relatively recent human traits. Why are you stalling?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 363 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Straggler writes:
Tell us how many mutations are required for each trait and I'll show you how to compute the probability. We can do the same thing with tiktaalik. Tell us how many mutations required to produce a tetrapod from some replicator that doesn't have legs and I can tell you the probability as a function of the population size and mutation rate, either in best case scenario or in the case when multiple mutations are needed in order to improve fitness. The math is difficult, you should learn it.
You seem to have missed it so let’s try again.I need you to tell me the probability of fair skin, blue eyes, lactase persistence and alcohol tolerance all having evolved during the mesolithic (i.e when the total number of humans that had ever lived was about 400 million according to your link). You do it. It’s your calculation. Straggler writes:
Who's stalling? I already told you it will take about a billion replications just to get a malaria beneficial mutation because we know what that mutation is. For the other traits, you have to specify the number of mutations for each of those traits. Under the best of circumstances, if you want all those traits in a single lineage, it is going to take about a billion replications for each evolutionary step. It really isn't any different than the Kishony and Lenski lineages accumulating their mutations to improved fitness in their environments. I'm surprised you are having so much difficulty understanding this. It really isn't much different than the coin tossing problem, only highly asymmetric.
You were desperate to show how bewilderingly impossible evolution was earlier when talking about chimpanzees and whatnot. Let’s see what your calculations say about the likelihood of relatively recent human traits. Why are you stalling?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
dad Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
As a beacon of truth and light.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
dad writes:
A beacon of light and truth has a purpose, a goal. What's yours? ringo writes:
As a beacon of truth and light. Why else are you here?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
dad Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 337 Joined: |
Well, offering an opinion that kids should no longer be taught lies in school, but the truth seems to be about all one could do here.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024