Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Hi ICANT,I totally agree. The opening verse is a statment that God created the heaven and earth at some point in time but not during the 'so-called' six days.the verses thereafter are a brief explanation of the actions he took on the existing plane, at some point in time, in order to prepare it for habitation. Hence why the earth shows its age to be billions of years old.

Yes absolutely there is a gap. The first 2 verses show a planet that was already existing in a universe that had been created by God.The following verses show the actions God proceeded to take on the existing planet in order to prepare it for habitation.And the six days mentioned are really 6 creative time periods that could have been millions of years...they chould have been shorter or longer.So basically, in short, God created the entire universe which included earth is mentioned in Vs 1. And at some point in time he came back to the earth and began to prepare it for habitation. The preparing of it is the 6 'days' mentioned from vs 2 onward.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

how long is a piece of string? no one knows.It must have been a hell of a long time though. On day 3 the water that covered the earth was brought together so that dry land could appear. That may have included a lot of volcanic activity until the land rose above the waters. And once there was land, all types of grasses, vegetation, plants and trees were given time to grow over the surface of the earth and obviously in the water too.... so i imagine that it took a very long time.

hi ICANT, the word yom does support it because yom has many meanings and is used figuratively througout the bible including in genesis. The only thing to consider is why geneis says their came to be 'evening and there came to be morning a first day' thus putting 'evening' first.The evening is a period without light, this is the dark period and as you know, Gen 1:2 begins with 'the earth was formless and void and there was darkness and Gods active force/holy spirit began moving to and fro over the surface of the waters'As there are no indicators of exactly when this evening began, it must have begun when Gods holy spirit began acting on the waters when the earth was in the dark & void state and before there was any light. It was at some time during that first 'day' that God said 'let there be light'....before that it was just darkness. Then, with the arrival of the light, the day came to its conclusion.So with that in mind, its reasonable to conclude that the initial dark period is an 'evening' of an indeterminable length.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

just as there can be no morning without the end of an evening.Considering genesis first says there was evening, why do you assume the morning must have come first?How do you know that evening didnt come before the morning? And if the morning came first, then it would imply that the light was always there, but the fact is that there was darkness before their was light so the evening must have been first.this is why i dont believe the 'evening and morning' is to be taken literally.

im really not sure what you mean by thatI've never heard the view that the spirits dwell in our physical universe, so if thats what you mean, i have no idea how to respond. I cant imagine how our physical universe would have any bearing on the realm in which they dwell in. There is plenty of phyical light in the universe, but God does not reside in the physical universe.
Genesis is talking about the planet....a planet that was in darkness
Gen 1:2 2Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deepGod was not dwelling on the earth was he?

yes i have, but not during the time the earth was being created is what i meant.
You asked why would they have been dwelling in darkness....however, the darkness was only in relation to the earth as genesis says "now the earth proved to be formless and void and there was darkness upon its surface" Well I agree that its by God's power that the universe is held together, but i dont believe he or his angels are dwelling in it if you know what i mean.I believe the realm they dwell in is a different realm to our physical realm...we could call it a different dimension. God can send his holy spirit, which is his active force/power, much like a power station can send the energy it creates hundreds or thousands of miles away...he doesnt have to be here to do it.But just on that point of God residing in the physical universe, no matter how high up into the heavens you fly, or how far you travel into space, you wont see him or any other spirit person....why not? to your first question, the earth was created along with the universe including all the other planets which means that it must have been here for as long as mars or venus or jupiter or pluto....it existed as a lifeless planet just like them UNTIL God began to work on it. This would explain the age that scientists come up with.The fossils that we find would have come from the animals that God created in the 5th & 6th periods. The fact that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago just shows that these 'days' were not literal days but 'ages' or 'eons' of time. The remnents of those animals are the coal/oil and gas that we find in the earth. but gen 1:1 says that 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth' thus showing that the earth was created along with the rest of the heavenly bodies. No one can say how long it existed for before gen 1:2 comes into play. He certainly is all seeing and all knowing, but he does not have to physically be here on earth to see and hear. If he was here on earth, we would not survive his presence....he even said to Moses "No man may see me and yet live"Its his power that prevents him from dwelling here on earth. The way that he sees and hears all is by viewing us from his own dwelling place...and he sends out his holy spirit to whereever he needs to in order to accomplish things.

yes i agree, which is why i have no problem with the earth being millions/billions of years old. so that means that we shoudl be able to go up into the heavens/space and see God dwelliing up there.I dont think i've heard of any astronauts returning to earth with news of seeing God up there....unless i've been living under a rock lol. You seem to already believe this for you said in your first comment on msg 23 "Well the heaven and the earth was created in the beginning whenever that was."whenever that was is exactly right...when did God create the sun or moon or planets or solar system or galaxy??? Apparently he created them in the 'beginning' along with the earth as part of that 'beginning'
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens (our sun/solar system/galaxy) and the earth. perhaps if you take yom literally, yes it would have been moving pretty slowbut we dont take it literally and genesis does not say that it must be literal. there are more indications that it is figurative for the reason that the 7th day has still not come to an end. 1. The different uses of Yom shows that a yom/day could be any length of time. A yom has been used to identify the lifetime of a person in the bible, and that lifetime has been broken up into the 'twilight' and 'dawn' of the persons life.2. Genesis 1:1 is not discussing the subject of light from God. Its an opening remark to the account of the physical creation. What sort of light are you talking about?3. I beleive that the holy spirit is upon all born again christians, however i am not a born again christian so it doesnt dwell on me as a permanent gift because i have not been chosen to rule as a king and priest with Christ in heaven. I deeply respect those who have been chosen.

There was light in the universe, but not on the earth as genesis 1.2. tellls us "there was darkness upon the surface of the waters"how could there be darkness? Perhaps because the earth was covered by a thick blanket of atmosphere that did not allow light to penetrate.If you look at some other translators notes, they make a point about how the light 'gradually' came into existence. It wasnt instant as if God flicked a switch. J.W. Watts in a Distinctive Translation of Genesis puts it this way And gradually light came into existence. And the Rotherhams emphasised bible calls it light diffused, in the footnote comment about verse 3. So the sources of light (sun/moon) could not be seen because something was blocking it out thus causing the surface of the waters to exist in darkness. exactly....yet if the days in genesis are literal, why did the 7th day not begin with an evening and end with a morning like the previous 6? Yom (Hebrew) A day; by extension an age or time period. Gen 1 uses the first instance of Yom to refere only to the light portion of the day....this is only 12 hours in length.Gen 1 also calls the light itself 'day'....so this doesnt even have anything to do with 'time'In Gen 8:22 it calls the 'eternity' of the earth 'days'
For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease.the Hebrews began their day in the evening but they sometimes spoke of it as if beginning in the morning. Leviticus 7:15 says: The flesh of the thanksgiving sacrifice of his communion sacrifices is to be eaten on the day of his offering. He must not save up any of it until morning.
The sacrifice had to be eating overnight, yet the word yom/day was used instead of 'evening' as you would expect. this shows that yom is being used figuratively for night.Sometimes ‘day and night’ only meant a portion of a solar day of 24 hours as Matthew 12:40 shows. Jesus spent only 1 full day (sat) and 2 half days (fri & Sun) in the tomb yet they were called 3 days.there is also the exression of a day in terms of measuring distances at Numbers 11:31And a wind burst forth from Jehovah and began driving quails from the sea and letting them fall above the camp about a day’s journey this way and about a day’s journey that way, all around the camp, and about two cubits above the surface of the earthAnd again in prophecy we see how a 'day' is used to stand for one year. Ezekiel 4:6: You must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you.
And at Numbers 14:34.
for forty days you spied out the land, you will answer for your errors a day for a year, forty years i have given youDay is also used with reference to the lifetime of a particular person as is seen at Luke 17:26
Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man
AND Isaiah 1:1 
The vision of Isaiah the son of A′moz that he visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uz‧zi′ah, Jo′tham, A′haz [and] Hez‧e‧ki′ah, kings of JudahThere are so many figurative uses of the word day in the bible that it surprises me no one mentions them. I guess if you are looking for the literal uses of the word its easy to bypass the figurative uses. by listening to and learning from those who have been born again. They are guided by spirit to reveal truth and I am more then happy to listen to them. Paul is speaking about people who reject spiritual things...he says "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him"he's talking about people who do not accept spiritual things but only accept what they see with their eyes. I am not one of them because i do accept the spiritual things. The fact that I am promoting such spiritual things should have indicated as much to you. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

LOLits the new alien coverup conspiracy!

the fact that Moses mentioned the 7th day along with the previous 6 should tell you that there must have been an evening and morning to it if those days are really literal. The fact that there is no evening and morning to that day should tell everyone that the previous 6 should not be taken literally. the light and the dark periods were one day, just as the light itself was a day and just as the entire 6 days were one day (2:4)the figurative use of the word yom IS being used throughtout the account. literally in hebrew it reads: further all-of days-of theearth seedtime andharvest andcold andwarmth andsummerandwinter andday andnight not they-shall-ceaseSo its not with regard to 'time' but the yom in this verse is actually refering to seasons, to heat, to cold, to day and to night which is showing how Yom is used figuratively. Its not always with regard to a 24 hour day as we know it. because of their misunderstanding??? So they did not understand their own writings but you do??? Wow, thats a big call to make.I think it comes back to genesis 1:2. When God began to work on the earth he called it an evening period, a darkness, as opposed to anything having to do with 'time' or the earths rotation on its axisThe earth began in darkness/evening which is why the hebrews began their day in darkness in acknowledgement of the God as the creator. and this account shows that the quails were being driven by the wind that length up into the air... it is speaking about distance.anyway, judging by your comments on every other verse i've shown, i dont think we are going to get very far with this. You believe the earth was created in 6 literal days and no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to change that so i'll just leave it there. This subject about yom has been going on for so long its time for a change of subject. It makes no difference to me or any other creationist is God made the earth in 6 literal days or not so this is the end of the argument for me.

that same goes the other, just because it is used literally in one verse does not mean it is used literally in all verses.I guess you've fixed that argument though by claiming that there are no indicators in a sentence showing when the word is used literally. Yet you demand the opposite for when a word is used figuratively.Just as there are no indicators for a literal use, there are no indicators for a figurative use....however, i could say that the geology itself is the indicator for a figurative use. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

So you are saying that there were 2 creation events in the one creation account.However, Genesis chpt 2 is not a separate creation account. Gen chpt 2 is infact telling the same creation story from a different angle.Vs 4 says "This is A HISTORY OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH in the time of their being created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven"The literal hebrew uses the term the 'genealogical-annals-of theheavens andtheearth meaning the 'history of what has been created'So Moses is simply repeating his first creation account....he is not speaking of a different creation account. There is only one creation of man and woman...the first two being Adam and Eve.

Hi ICANT, i do refute your assertion that there are two creation accounts.As i said, Gen 2:4 shows that the account being described in chpt 2 is the same as the account in chpt 1 because chpt 2:4 says'these are the geneological annals which were from the beginning' ....the beginning being what was described in chpt 1:1 'in the beginning God created the heavens and earth'And besides that, even Jesus commented that Adam and Eve were the ones that God created 'in the beginning' Matt 19:4-6Did you not read that he who created them at the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’?"What was jesus quoting here? He was quoting Genesis 2:24 which says "That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh"Yet, Jesus says that this was the couple that God made 'in the beginning' which is what Genisis 1:1 says 'in the beginning'So chpt 1 & 2 are discussing the same account of creation but contain different details of the same story.

let me get this straight.Do you mean to imply that everything spoken of in Genesis chpt 1 happened in Vs 1 which states 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'and then everything in chpt 2 is an entirely different creation by God?If thats what you mean, then i would just like to remind you that Gen chpt 2 states that the 7th day began and God proceeded to 'rest from his work' on that day. Thus the heavens and the earth and all their army came to their completion. 2And by the seventh day God came to the completion of his work that he had made, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made. 3And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of makingTo me this implies that Gods creative works regarding the earth and mankind were completed by the end of the 6th day....and his 'resting' meant that no more creative works were forthcoming. Otherwise why would moses even say this if he kept on creating more lifeforms on the earth???