Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

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As I said everyone is entitled to their opinion.

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I used the site as they say there is 2 creation stories in Genesis. I don't have to agree with them as to who they think wrote the two stories or why they think two stories exist.

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God Bless,

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Take a look at Genesis 36:31

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31Now these are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom before any (O)king reigned over the sons of Israel.

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As early as in the eleventh century CE it was pointed out that the Edomite king list in this chapter was made up of names of persons who would have reigned long after Moses had died. It was one of the earliest passages that scholars said must have been written by someone other than Moses.Extra info: Gen 36:2-30 was written by author P and Gen 36:31-43 written by J.For starters, you can take a look at wikipedia Documentary hypothesis - WikipediaIn relation to my respond to you from the wikisite:

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Mosaic authorship
Prior to the 17th century both Jews and Christians accepted the traditional view that Moses had written the Torah under the direct inspirationeven dictationof God. A few rabbis and philosophers asked how Moses could have described his own death (Deuteronomy 34:5—10), or given a list of the kings of Edom before those kings ever lived (Genesis 36:31—43), but none doubted the truth of the tradition, for the purpose of scholarship "was to underline the antiquity and authority of the teaching in the Pentateuch, not to demonstrate who wrote the books."[5]

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w00tly w00t awesome moses guy, right?

EDIT: Reply to ICANTI think I already did come up with a very good argument to why Moses did not write the Torah. To me, the difference seems to be that I have an informed opinion and you just have an opinion, and you deny the (few) evidence I just provided you. Anyways, I will try to provide you with more information on the subject.If Moses did write the Torah we would expect consisten content, e.g. regarding the revelation of God’s name; the point is not that different sources use different name of God, but that the different sources have a different idea of when the name of YHWH was first revealed to humans. Referring to the generation before the flood, the source we identify as J says explicitly: Then it was begun to invoke the name YHWH — Gen 4:26. We can even track the use of God’s name YHWH back to Gen 4:1 where Eve names Cain. However, when we look at the sources as we identify as E and P it is stated just as explicitly that YHWH does not reveal his name until the generation of Moses. In Genesis YHWH instead tells Abraham that his name is El Shadday, thus:
YHWH appeared to Abram and said to him, I am El Shadday. (Gen 1:17)
and when YHWH speaks to Moses in Exodus the text says:
And God spoke to Moses and said to him, I am YHWH. And I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El Shaday, and I was not known to them by my name, YHWH.
Furthermore, the source identified as J never uses the word God (Elohim) in narration without a sine exeption in the Masoretic Text. In the Torah the names YHWH, El, and the word God (Elohim) occur more than two thousand times, and the number of exceptions we fin in this picture is three. Frankly; if you now say the names of God do not prove anything I bet my right eye you just do not want to acknowledge the phenomenal fact.I could still provide you with more arguments, it just that there are a heck lot of evidences for the documentary hypothesis.I did not say anything about the creations in genesis, but what the heck I will try to say something about that too since you eager for it.
Gen 2:4 first part: These are the records of the skies and the earth when they were created is the first of ten uses of the phrase these are the records of, with the function to introduce both narratives and lists when two different sources occurs. They are the work of the Redactor (R) as a way of editing the source text of Genesis into a continuous story. This formula is original derived from the Book of Records Gen 5:1.Gen 2:4 second part: In the day that YHWH God made earth and skies. The text now changes, always referring to God’s name YHWH eleven times, but YHWH God only occurs in the introductory chapter and nowhere else in the Pentateuch.
The source we identify as P (Gen 1:1 — Gen 2:3) begins with the skies and the earth (Gen 1:1) and the source we identify as J begins with the earth and the skies , the reversing order. It is not proof of anything, but it is notable since these five words reveal the sources perspectives. P is more heaven-centred while J is more human-centred. Furthermore, the combining of the sources produced provide a more transcendent conception of God in P which merges with the more personal conception in J. The combined conception of God as cosmic and the God of your father has been a central element of Judaism and Christianity.I hope my answer satisfies you despite English not being my first language.EDIT: Reply to ICANTEdited by hotjer, : No reason given.

See my respond

Uff, wall of text!I have not read the whole thread and I simply saw you wrote you believe Moses did write the Torah, which in my opinion is incorrect, and therefore I responded. I did not have any intention to discuss whether there are two creations or not, but tried to show you the difference in the writing style of the two creations, to support the opinion that Moses did not write the Torah. It might be off-topic, but as I said, I saw you wrote you believe Moses did write the Torah. If you have no further interest in discussing this subject, then simply tell me after this respond.Exodus 17:14 and Exodus 34:27 differs in writing style. Exodus 17:14 share the same writing style as E which we first encounter in Gen 20:-1-17 and most of Gen 21-22. Exodus 34:27 share the same writing style as J which we first encounter in Gen 2:4 (without the first line: these are the records of the skies and the earth when they were created.
You are taking the passages out of context and therefore it is probably difficult to differentiate between the writing styles. By taking a look at the Deu 31:25:26 you should read from Deu 31:24-27. I could point out the same thing about the other passages you refer to. But the main problem is we do not speak about the same thing.
What I am saying is; according to linguistic evidence, we should not think Moses wrote the Torah, but according to you; the Torah tells us Moses wrote the Torah and therefore Moses wrote the Torah. Personally, I do not like that kind of logic since the writing styles tell us something different and we need to assume both; Moses did have about eight different writing styles (according to the documentary hypothesis) and what he is telling the truth. You did say we use the Bible as the conclusion and I did not, just with another approach than you did, and I came to a different conclusion supported by evidence.You ask me why we do expect consistent content. Here I assume Moses do not contradict himself. Furthermore, it is human nature to have a personal writing style — not eight different. I have already giving examples of few contradictions.You ask me about whether I have evidence to support the assertion that This formula is original derived from the Book of Records Gen 5:1. And here I must refer to linguistic evidence again. Gen 5 is of a different source than any of the other sources (J, E, P, REJ, Dtn, Dtr1, Dtr2, R) and the genealogical different:
Gen 5: Seth, Enosh, Cainan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech
Other: Cain, Enoch, Irad, Mehuya-el, Metusha-el, Lamech
Obviously they have a lot in common and also indicating a common, more ancient source.You ask me why it was accepted Moses did write the Torah for over 3000 years?
3000 years have not passed yet, but small detail. But honestly, I cannot know for sure. I guess they simply wanted to believe that Moses wrote the Torah. But as I have pointed out, already in the eleventh century CE scholars found sentences that was not consistent with that idea. You should tell me why you still think it was Moses. If you circle around the same explanations I might answer to things; you assume the bible tells the truth, or; you are inconsistent in your argumentation.Anyways, I do not think I object to the fact that there are two creations, but I simply object that it was the same author. I could go on if it really interest you, but I think I just will end it with the reason why the documentary hypothesis is a very good argument: The strongest evidence establishing the documentary hypothesis is that several different lines of evidence converge.A lot of time to use on something you might not answer

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Or maybe it was because they knew he wrote it and just passed that knowledge down.

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They cannot know for sure, afterall, some came up with the idea that Moses did not write it. You assume they know; how can you know if we do not assume the bible tells the truth?

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Moses died in 1445 BC. It is now 2010 AD I think you could squeeze 3000 years in there if my math is anywhere near correct you could get 3455 years between those numbers. I could be wrong.

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Ah you are thinkng of that. I am thinking of when the different sources in the Torah as we can identify it. Just to sum something up:The following sources is dated according to;
* The Hebrew of J and E comes from the ealiest stage of biblical Hebrew
* The Hebrew of P comes from the later stage of the language
*The Hebrew of the Deuteronomistic texts comes from a still later stage of the language
*P comes from the earlier stage of Hebrew than Hebrew of the book of Ezekiel (which comes from the time of the Babylonian exile).J and E: around 922-722 BCE with J connected to Judah and E to Israel when they was divided into two kingdoms.
P: around 715-687 BCE in the time of Hezekiah, king of Judah
D: around 640-609 BCE in the reign of Josiah, king of JudahOf course, when I use these data, it has not been over 3000 years since then.You will probably still say that mankind have interjected their believe into the Torah, and there we do agree, but we do not agree on how they did. I say they manipulated the text rather simple change a thing here and a thing there, and also that Moses did not write it. The oldest sources we have is what the documentary hypothesis' analyze is based on. Furhter thouhgts on whether or not Moses did write the Torah we cannot know for sure. As the evidences look like, it seems unrealistic that Moses did write the Torah. We might speculate that Moses wrote the Torah, but that does not support at as a good argument for such opinion.Regarding the origin of universe is a whole other story. However, I can give you a hint: you probably have a misunderstanding of the term nothing when it is used in relation to astronomy (I assume you are not a supporter of a natural explanation of how the world came into existence).Should we end it?