Yeah - but you gotta be glad to see someone that can actually write coherently, no?
I find Genomicus a refreshing change after the likes of Dawn Bertot.
Absolutely. I'm enjoying reading his writings. I think its a shame that hooah is being such a disrespectful jerk toward them. He's hurting the quality of this discussion board and tarnishing us as a community.
Stick around Genomicus, we're not all assholes.
Now I get to add "hypocrite" to Theo's list of qualities
In essence, hooah asked why I think the bacterial flagellum displays properties of rational design.
The problem is that displaying the properties of rational design doesn't lead us to any conclusion. Things that aren't designed can look designed. Things that are designed can look like they weren't.
"Looking desinged" doesn't help us in distingiushing design.
If poor design is evidence against the telic hypothesis, then any system that displays rational design is evidence in favor of the telic hypothesis. There's no reason why the road can't go both ways.
Poor design is *not* evidence against the telic hypothese: it could have been a Poor Designer after all.
What poor design is evidence against is an intelligent powerful and benevolent God. Creationists typically get into that part while these neo-IDists seem to be seperating themselves from it. Although, we still have that "intelligent" qualifier and some of the 'designs' we see are quite silly and suggest that the presumed designer maybe wasn't all that intelligent afterall.
Quite true. The appearance of rational design does not help us in distinguishing design in a clear-cut manner. But it aids in assessing the degree of our suspicion of design. It is a clue.
But if it doesn't help in distinguishing design, then it isn't a clue.
Well, I guess it depends on what your goals are... If you just want to feel better about your suspicions, and don't care about logic, then I guess what you say is true.
But then, too, the native americans had a lot of clues that their rain dances worked, right?
For example, if the structure of the flagellum was poorly designed and hodge-podge, wouldn't that be a popular argument against the idea that the flagellum was designed? But it is not hodge-podge, so it is one clue in favor of viewing it as designed.
Designed by the process outlined in the Theory of Evolution, sure. Nobody thinks it was randomly assembled. But we still don't have anything about it being purposefully designed.
Poor design is evidence against the thesis of a rational designer, is it not?
I don't think so. Rational designers can make poor designs, even on purpose.