Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Silly Design Institute: Let's discuss BOTH sides of the Design Controversy...
Genomicus
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 852
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 210 of 219 (653195)
02-19-2012 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by New Cat's Eye
02-17-2012 12:28 PM


Re: Poor design and rational design
quote:
The problem is that displaying the properties of rational design doesn't lead us to any conclusion. Things that aren't designed can look designed. Things that are designed can look like they weren't.
"Looking desinged" doesn't help us in distingiushing design.
Quite true. The appearance of rational design does not help us in distinguishing design in a clear-cut manner. But it aids in assessing the degree of our suspicion of design. It is a clue. For example, if the structure of the flagellum was poorly designed and hodge-podge, wouldn't that be a popular argument against the idea that the flagellum was designed? But it is not hodge-podge, so it is one clue in favor of viewing it as designed.
Poor design is evidence against the thesis of a rational designer, is it not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-17-2012 12:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 6:08 AM Genomicus has replied
 Message 219 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-19-2012 3:18 PM Genomicus has not replied

  
Genomicus
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 852
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 212 of 219 (653197)
02-19-2012 6:16 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Panda
02-19-2012 6:08 AM


Re: Poor design and rational design
quote:
Poor design is not evidence against a rational designer, it is only evidence against an infallible designer.
That is true to an extent. However, when you're talking about, say, the backwards wiring of the eye, that speaks against a rational designer because any rational designer would have designed the eye differently - or so it seems to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 6:08 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 6:40 AM Genomicus has replied

  
Genomicus
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 852
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 214 of 219 (653199)
02-19-2012 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Panda
02-19-2012 6:40 AM


Re: Poor design and rational design
quote:
And when looking at a car with an unreinforced petrol tank at the back, no doubt that would speak against a rational designer because any rational designer would have designed the car differently, no?
Not necessarily. A rational designer might also consider the cost of that design, and conclude that, based on the costs and current funds, it would be better to design the car with an unreinforced petrol tank.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 6:40 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 6:53 AM Genomicus has replied

  
Genomicus
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 852
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 216 of 219 (653229)
02-19-2012 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Panda
02-19-2012 6:53 AM


Re: Poor design and rational design
Okay. I guess the thing that's confusing me the most is that so often non-teleologists argue that poor design seen in nature is evidence of the blind watchmaker's tinkering and evidence against ID (hopefully, it doesn't seem like I'm ignoring your points, Panda). If I understand your position correctly then, sloppy design in nature is only evidence against an omnipotent deity-designer?
That is, of course, fine with me. But then you must agree that it's really only an argument against creationism, is it not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 6:53 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by subbie, posted 02-19-2012 12:53 PM Genomicus has not replied
 Message 218 by Panda, posted 02-19-2012 2:41 PM Genomicus has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024