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Author Topic:   Not only Intelligent Design - but DIVINE DESIGN!
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 30 of 139 (560572)
05-16-2010 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Anita Meyer
05-15-2010 4:47 PM


You people can think what you want, but I will tell you that it has some of the biggest and well renowned scientists pondering right about now!
Names?
Firstly, no credible linguistic scholar can say with any confidence just were language or writing originated from.
And yet you are not a credible linguistic scholar and you apparently think that you know.
Secondly, in my book I have a whole chapter that is dedicated to showing people how all written writing of the world is a form of the same Hebrew letters that came down with Moses from Mount Sinai. I have letter charts that show the similarity in letters from the earliest know/found eras. Even Phoenician, cuneiform, Chinese and Mayan are forms of Hebrew.
How can syllabaries and ideographic writing be "forms of" an abjadic script?
If you are familiar with the biblical books of Enoch and Jubilees... both books mention that Enoch was the first "scribe" in history.
And Chinese myths say that it was Cāng Ji. So?
You can rest assure that the Hebrew scribes copied them exactly as they were seen on the tablets ...
On what grounds can we rest assured of it? Your say-so?
Have you any idea of the rules that the Hebrew scribes had to abide by (and still do to this very day)?
Yes. I also know when they date from.
When Moses was on Mount Sinai the letters were revised by G-d into their original proper forms. This style was called the Hebrew block style and was used to write the Hebrew Old Testament.
And you know this how?
In my book I illustratively show how each and every one of the Hebrew letters are formed from one prototype form, which in turn are formed from natures law.
Perhaps you could expand on this further.
If you think this isn’t amazing, try finding an alphabet in the world today that does this.
If you really think that letters this disparate:
י ש א ל
... are "formed from one prototype form", then I don't see of what system of writing one could not make such a claim.
If one cannot see that there is intelligence here... might as well go amuse yourself with watching paint dry.
Doubtless every system of writing was the product of intelligence. To be more specific, human intelligence. If you wish to attribute a particularly inefficient form of script to God Almighty, then I for one would like to see some evidence.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-15-2010 4:47 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 35 of 139 (560694)
05-17-2010 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Anita Meyer
05-16-2010 10:11 PM


Coyote, you are incorrect about this. Geologist know that the entire earth was covered by marine flood sedimentation (salt water from the sea) consisting of marine fossils which are found in all rock strata.
This is absolutely untrue. May I suggest that you study geology before you start talking about it?
Additionally, rocks that are exposed to water for a length of time (such as the great flood) can cause the elements to leak out do to solubility. Such as salts of uranium and other radioactive elements which are quite capable of dissolving in water, making all the age measurements flat-out USELESS!
Now, if only creationists had some experimental evidence for this. After all, if it was true, they'd just have to get a real scientist to date a rock, keep it underwater for a year or so, and then get the scientist to date the rock again. If its measured age had increased by several billion years, they'd have proved their point.
Funny how no creationist ever does this, isn't it?
Instead, they concentrate on trivial misunderstandings like the following:
The proof of how water can effect radioactive dating can be found when the Hawaiian volcano Kilauea was recorded to have erupted less than 200 years ago and the lava from this eruption was submerged under water. It was later dated to be 22 million years old. Other samples come from Hualalai which erupted in 1800 were dated to be 300 thousand million years old.
This, of course, has nothing to do with uranium salts leaching out, and everything to do with the fact that the K-Ar method can't be applied to pillow basalt, as you'd know if you'd taken a moment's interest in the subject you're talking nonsense about.
Enoch created what is called the henge which has evolved into our modern day calendar of 365 days. Not only was he the first scribe, but he was also the first calendar maker.
Evidence?
In addition to this, the Hebrews clearly knew that the earth was round
Clearly not all of them. But perhaps by the time the Gospel of Luke was written, the Roman Empire had brought the Jews into contact with Greek learning --- the Greeks, of course, discovered that the world was round centuries before the Gospel of Luke was written.
Theodoric, now as to the validity of the Bible... please cite for me what you have discovered is incorrect. As far a Noahs Ark goes no we have not found it yet, but the allegory found in the Bible which includes mathematics has not been discredited. If the biblical math is correct, this helps lend hand to the story. What I am getting at here Theodoric is that you claim the Bible is incorrect, when (as it appears) it is not!
For instance since you bring up Noahs Ark Noah made the ark 300 cubits (450 feet) in length. It was 50 cubits (75 feet) in width, and 30 cubits (45 feet) in height. People believe that back in Bible times a cubit was a man's arm from elbow to fingertips. So normally a cubit was about 18 inches.
People also used math to build King Solomon’s Pool. It was 10 cubits in distance, 5 cubits in height, and its circumference, or distance around, was 30 cubits.
The Ark of the Covenant used math too. It was 2.5 cubits long and 1.5 wide and high. The temple the ark was in was 500 cubits by 500 cubits.
I don't see the point. Yes, some ancient manuscripts talk about the sizes of things. Why do you mention it?
Now back on the subject of the Hebrew letters What I have given you here is more proof than the theory of evolution will ever provide!
What you have given us is an unclear argument substantiated by no evidence whatsoever.
The Bible is the best selling book of all time - this should tell you something.
That there's one born every minute?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-16-2010 10:11 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 39 of 139 (560709)
05-17-2010 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Parasomnium
05-17-2010 2:36 AM


Re: You contradict yourself
Anita,
First you say this:
Firstly, no credible linguistic scholar can say with any confidence just were language or writing originated from. Yes, they can postulate on which ones they think came first, but this is really just all assumption.
and then you contradict yourself with this:
Secondly, in my book I have a whole chapter that is dedicated to showing people how all written writing of the world is a form of the same Hebrew letters that came down with Moses from Mount Sinai. I have letter charts that show the similarity in letters from the earliest know/found eras. Even Phoenician, cuneiform, Chinese and Mayan are forms of Hebrew.
What am I to make of that?
There is no contradiction here.
She said that no credible linguistic scholar could determine the origins of writing. But clearly she is neither credible nor a linguistic scholar, so there's nothing to stop her from doing so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Parasomnium, posted 05-17-2010 2:36 AM Parasomnium has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 68 of 139 (560849)
05-17-2010 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Anita Meyer
05-17-2010 12:05 PM


All that cuneiform is, is the Hebrew letters (illustrated by arrows/cuneiform) turned to the left which is just a sideways view of the Hebrew letters. For instance the Hebrew letter G (Gimel) is the same as the Phoenician letter G as well as the cuneiform letter G. The Hebrew letter D (Daled) is the same as the Phoenician letter D. as well as the cuneiform D. The Hebrew letter H (Hey) is the same as the Phoenician letter H, as well as the cuneiform H. the same goes for the Hebrew letter V (vov) which is the same as the Phoenician letter V as well as the cuneiform V. This is also true of the Hebrew letter S (Samech), which matches the Phoenician letter S as well as the cuneiform S. This also follows with the Hebrew letter S (shin) which matches almost like a glove to the Phoenician letter S. as well as the cuneiform S. I could go on and on I have studies the comparison in letters for years already. There are also clear matches in Chinese and Mayan, additionally Egyptian hieroglyphs are just a form of the Phoenician letters in some phonic/illustrative way.
But cuneiform is not an alphabetic script. It's logographic/syllabic.
Why didn't you research the subjects you're talking about? A few minutes' study would have told you you were wrong.
The number 7 also corresponds to us BIOLOGICALLY! It does so (in part) by the MOONS LUNAR CYCLE. Miraculously, as it turns out, this time period is the most ideal time for the human body (including all other living things) to rejuvenate itself and its cells. Not only seven DAYS, but every cell in the human body is replaced and renewed within a period of seven YEARS.
But this is not actually true.
Interestingly the number 7 also becomes confirmed for us when we observe the gestation periods of living things in nature. For instance ALL bird eggs hatch in multiples of 7 day periods from laying. The hen sits three weeks (which is 21 days - 7x3), while the pigeon sits two weeks (which is 14 days - 7x2). Ducks 28 days, other ducks 35 days, Eagles also 35 days, Owls 28 days, Penguins 49 days, (these are multiples of 7).
And the list goes on Additionally, most animals have a gestation period of multiples of 7. For instance the mouse 21 days (3x7). The rabbit and rat 28 days (4x7). The cat 56 days (8x7). And the dog 63 days (9x7). Again as you can see all multiples of 7.
Nothing, perhaps, is more remarkable with the number 7 then the period of gestation (or pregnancy) in humans. This corresponding period is 280 days or 40x7.
Stop making stuff up.
Well if indeed as the linguists suggest that language was derived from genetic evolutionary means. What becomes intriguing is that it can be shown geographically how one language was derived from another.
The evolutionists incorrectly think that if the Tower of Babel event mentioned in the Bible would have resulted in a random and unrelated distribution of tongues, it would not be a distribution that can be so closely tied to linguistic evolution. In other words, the evolutionists think that there WOULD NOT be any relationships at all between languages. But this assumption is quite wrong.
Ah, yes, omphalism. Apparently your take on the Tower of Babel is that if it really had happened, the effects would be just exactly the same as if linguists were absolutely right about the evolution of languages.
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.
One question, though --- we have actual written records of the descent of the Romance languages from Latin. How does that fit into your fantasy world?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-17-2010 12:05 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 69 of 139 (560852)
05-17-2010 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Anita Meyer
05-17-2010 3:42 PM


Posted by Coyote. This, of course, has nothing to do with uranium salts leaching out, and everything to do with the fact that the K-Ar method can't be applied to pillow basalt, as you'd know if you'd taken a moment's interest in the subject you're talking nonsense about.
I am not Coyote. He and I are two different people.
Can't you be right about anything?
Yes, this may be the case regarding Hawaiian pillow basalts with anomalous K-Ar ages because it may have something to do with trapping argon before it can escape? It may be that this particular rock is unsuitable for radiometric dating.
No, you can date pillow basalt radiometrically, just not with K-Ar.
But it still does not erase the fact that WATER causes elements to leak out do to solubility, thus not allowing us to get proper dates and likewise as we can see with the Hawaiian volcano.
You just admitted that the Hawaiian pillow basalts do not support your fantasy about water magically changing radiometric dates. Is there anything that does, or is this just more of the koo-koo stuff you make up in your head?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-17-2010 3:42 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 70 of 139 (560853)
05-17-2010 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Theodoric
05-17-2010 9:59 PM


Yeah she has to sell her books so she can get her investment back.
From the publisher.
quote:
In that spirit, In Search of the Universal Truth Publisher has a
policy of offering to publish all manuscripts that are submitted, at the authors own expense,
while at the same time offering a wide range of options to help get you published for a
reasonable price.
If you pay the costs they will publish anything.
The sad thing is that nowadays it's possible to publish for free. Anyone who pays a single cent for the privilege is being royally ripped off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Theodoric, posted 05-17-2010 9:59 PM Theodoric has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 84 of 139 (561114)
05-18-2010 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Anita Meyer
05-18-2010 9:58 PM


Correction, yes they do!
There have been dating methods that have yielded a young earth. One of them has to do with helium being found in granite rock and another polonium. There are others as well such as carbon being found in diamonds. How about Mount Saint Helens, which proves that large canyons can form in a single day. And there are numerous other things as well evidence suggest that there is not enough dirt and sediment on the sea floor at the rate of the earths erosion. If the earths oceans are indeed millions of years old then the oceans would be massively saturated and stifled with sediment dozens of meters deep.
Would you like me to go on?
Yes. Specifically I'd like you to produce evidence and reasoning instead of assertion and stuff you've made up.
The conclusion here is, we simply cannot say with any sure confidence that the Earth is billions of years old ...
Speak for yourself. I can. But that's because I know stuff about geology.
Even though this may seem ridiculous to you because it doesn’t fit into your evolutionary view, please keep in mind that the Bible has never been falsified - EVER!
What a curious falsehood. Of course it has. For example, we can be absolutely certain that the Flood never happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-18-2010 9:58 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 85 of 139 (561115)
05-18-2010 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Anita Meyer
05-18-2010 1:49 PM


Coyote, I do happen to know that one of the oldest trees is called Methuselah (named after the longest lived of all the biblical patriarchs). It is a bristlecone pine tree that grows on a remote hillside near Las Vegas Nevada. This tree is proclaimed to be the oldest known living thing on Earth. Nearly 5,000 years old!
Only 5,000 years old, this sure fits into the Biblical perspective!
And the fact that I am 36 also "fits with the Biblical perspective", but does not confirm it.
The fact that there are things that are much older than 6,000 years blows the "Biblical perspective" to pieces.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-18-2010 1:49 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 86 of 139 (561116)
05-18-2010 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Anita Meyer
05-18-2010 9:58 PM


There have been dating methods that have yielded a young earth. One of them has to do with helium being found in granite rock and another polonium.
Oh yes, Gentry's mistake, a blunder so awful that even creationist websites like AnswersInGenesis disown it.
There are others as well such as carbon being found in diamonds.
What, carbon has been found in something which is by definition made out of carbon?
Well, that proves that the Earth is young ... er ... how?
How about Mount Saint Helens, which proves that large canyons can form in a single day.
How about it? Yes, water can rapidly cut a channel (not, of course, a canyon) through unconsolidated volcanic ash. You do not explain how this is meant to prove that the Earth is young. And of course it doesn't --- the fact that water can wash away ash would be true no matter how old the Earth was, as you'd know if you'd spent five seconds thinking about the subject.
And there are numerous other things as well evidence suggest that there is not enough dirt and sediment on the sea floor at the rate of the earths erosion. If the earths oceans are indeed millions of years old then the oceans would be massively saturated and stifled with sediment dozens of meters deep.
As you would know if you'd ever taken the slightest interest in the subject you're talking about, the sediment on the ocean floor is hundreds of meters deep.
But of course you're not interested in geology, you're just interested in being wrong.
Well, let me congratulate you on your multiple errors of fact and reasoning. Your pastor must be very proud of you.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-18-2010 9:58 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 97 of 139 (561321)
05-19-2010 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Anita Meyer
05-19-2010 10:04 PM


You say there is a blunder, well, what is it?
Well, for a start, his unwarranted assumption that the radiohalos were caused by polonium.
One of the most telling glitches is through radiocarbon dating of a variety of diamonds using highly sensitive C14 (Carbon 14) detectors in which it was discovered that there is ten times the detection limit of C14 in diamonds.
But this is not true.
The erosion features at Mount St. Helens are not unique, but are similar to those observed elsewhere.
Naturally, since water can erode unconsolidated volcanic ash wherever it's found. And this would be true whatever age the earth is.
We do not even know today how the Grand Canyon was formed
You don't. I do.
Additionally, they have taken samples of many of these NEWLY FORMED rocks from Mount St. Helens and radioisotope them, and they estimate in the millions of years. So we know this cannot be so since these rocks were recently formed during the eruption in 1980! Its not just the rocks from the Mount St. Helens eruption, there are also numerous false readings from other known newly formed rocks such as from Mount Ngauruhoe (an active volcano) located in New Zealand. These rocks are known to have been newly formed from the eruptions starting in 1949 and they have been dated to be millions of years old. So it’s clear to see that something is evidently wrong with our starting assumptions.
Are you going to come back crying - contamination again!
No, I'm going to ask you for references to the scientific literature. Then I'll tell you why you're wrong.
There is not enough mud on the sea flood!
You said that there should be dozens of meters. There are hundreds.
If you now wish to move the goalposts, please show some sort of scrap of a shred of a scintilla of working.
At that rate, erosion would deposit the present mass of sediment in less than 12 million years.
Even if we accept your say-so as to the relevant figures, which I should tell you frankly that I don't, and if we assume that all the sediment is insoluble, which it isn't, you're still off by a factor of at least 3. I think some idiot must have assumed that sedimentary rock has the same density as water.
Yet according to evolutionary theory, erosion and plate subduction have been going on as long as the oceans have existed, an alleged 3 billion years.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. No geologist in the world claims says that there's any ocean on Earth as much as 3 billion years old. The oldest oceanic rocks are 200 million years old or less. Anything older has been subducted. You'd know that if you'd ever bothered to study a little basic geology instead of learning to recite crap you read on creationist websites.
Additionally there is not even enough sodium in the sea for an earth that is allegedly 3 billions years old.
That is not how old the Earth allegedly is (it's older, as you would know if you'd ever taken a passing interest in geology) and there is plenty enough sodium. The reason creationists manage to be so howlingly wrong about this subject is that, because of their complete ignorance of geology, they are unaware that sodium leaves the oceans as well as being added to it.
What’s more recorded history is too short! If primitive man built megalithic monuments and elaborate cave drawings, and kept records of lunar cycles and phases, why would he wait two thousand centuries before using the same skills to record history?
Because you can't record history using megalithic monuments. You have to, y'know ... invent writing.
The Biblical time scale is much more likely.
Apart from having been proved absolutely false, which makes it kinda unlikely.
---
In any case, it seems to me that you're wandering off topic. The topic of this thread is not "common creationist mistakes about geology". Can we go back to you being wrong about linguistics? At least that's original.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-19-2010 10:04 PM Anita Meyer has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 108 of 139 (561405)
05-20-2010 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Anita Meyer
05-20-2010 10:35 AM


All very good rebuttals, but you know what, they are all typical of one sided evolutionists thinking of always finding lame excuses and never truly coming head on with subjective data! All your data does is serve you from the painful job of thinking rationally. I refuse to go spiraling down that path. Again, nothing anything that any of you have said here has disclaimed anything that I have said.
There is not one thing that any of you guys here said, that I didn’t already hear many times before. You claim that I get my info from creationists websites (which is not the case), but you guys are guilty of not thinking outside the box. You remain trapped in professor evil-lutionist class 101!
Now we can keep going around and around with this argument on both Creationists verses Evolutionists scientific data, but it remains a vicious circle both ways that only serves to meaningless ends.
If you don't like being proved wrong, you should spend more time trying to be right and less time whining about the people who prove you wrong.
Question 1, can anyone here tell me why it is that when a poisonous snake is placed in a hyperbaric chamber that its venom becomes nontoxic?
I can't even tell you if this is true, since the claim seems to stem from the notorious creationist liar Carl Baugh.
In Genesis it tells us that the earth had a different atmosphere during the time of Adam and Eve and before Noah’s Great Flood.
Genesis says no such thing.
Science does not realize that there are numerous telltale signs that the earth readily supplies. We find these little secrets trapped inside the fossil record. For instance (as I was saying in a previous posting in this thread) we know that living things (ones that still exists today) grew much bigger because we find giant specimens in the fossil record.
So, you're going to believe scientists when they study the geological record and tell you that the atmosphere was once richer in oxygen --- and ignore everything else they say about the geological record?
Well, that's mighty convenient for you. But I am more fortunate still, because I can take the whole of reality into account, instead clinging to tiny little fragments of it and ignoring all the rest.
This mist that came up from the face of the ground is the exact effect expected if the earth was surrounded by a vapor canopy.
Show your working.
This atmosphere was likened unto a hyperbaric chamber.
And who likenethedeth it, yea verily, unto a hyperbaric chamber? Only that's not in the Bible either.
So this would mean that the high oxygen content of the early Earth would have played an enormous factor pertaining to LONG LIFE!
Oxygen toxicity
Did you also know that BACTERIA and CANCER CELLS cannot grow in an oxygenated rich environment.
So when, according to you, did bacteria come into existence? Obviously for your fantasy world to be consistent they can't have been created by God "in the beginning". They must at least post-date Methusalah.
Did you also know that when a snake is placed inside a hyperbaric chamber its venom becomes nontoxic.
You may wonder why? The reason is because venom is a toxin that is created from BACTERIA!
Bacterial Protein Toxins
But this is not true, which is one reason why the link you have provided does not say that it is true.
The genes for snake toxins have been identified. Guess what, they're in the genomes of snakes, not of imaginary symbiotic bacteria.
If you'd even been interested in this subject for thirty seconds or so, you'd know this. Google is your friend here.
I can think of several environmental factors that changed off hand, such as thorns and thistles.
Evidence?
What I am getting at here is that these things all have a valid scientific explanation.
There's not even scientific evidence for creationist fantasies, let alone a scientific explanation.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-20-2010 10:35 AM Anita Meyer has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 111 by Anita Meyer, posted 05-20-2010 1:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

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