Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,387 Year: 3,644/9,624 Month: 515/974 Week: 128/276 Day: 2/23 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Truth About Evolution and Religion
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 419 (561053)
05-18-2010 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by dkroemer
05-18-2010 3:34 PM


Re: and yet, curiously, it is still explained by evolution ...
Complexity is another word for order. The greater the knowledge we have of the location and properties of particles, the greater the amount of order or complexity. In the free expansion of a gas, there is a decrease in order because there is a decrease in the knowledge of the location of the gas molecules. There is a high degree of order in a protein because the location of each amino acid is known.
That would mean that, according to you, growing salt crystals from a solution, or freezing water into ice crystals, would be a violation of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Certainly you must be wrong somewhere, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by dkroemer, posted 05-18-2010 3:34 PM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by dkroemer, posted 05-18-2010 7:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 207 of 419 (561193)
05-19-2010 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by dkroemer
05-18-2010 7:38 PM


Re: and yet, curiously, it is still explained by evolution ...
Science understands the chemical forces that cause crystals to form. There are no known forces that caused proteins and life to form.
So?
That makes it no longer violate the 2Lot?
When we do figure out how proteins and life formed, will they no longer violate it either?
Really though, our understanding of it doesn't actually affect the violation... its there regardless.
Try again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by dkroemer, posted 05-18-2010 7:38 PM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 3:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 419 (561242)
05-19-2010 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by dkroemer
05-19-2010 3:11 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
They are trying to discredit intelligent design, not for rational reasons, but to promote atheistic humanism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 3:11 PM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 3:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 219 of 419 (561248)
05-19-2010 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by dkroemer
05-19-2010 3:15 PM


Re: and yet, curiously, it is still explained by evolution ...
We can assume that evolution does not violate the second law since the second law is clearer even than the first law of thermodynamics.
Bullshit!
The conservation of energy is way clearer than the concept of entropy.
Are you even capable of describing entorpy without using the word "order"?
Saying evolution violates the second law implies that the universe is not intelligible.
What do you mean? How so?
What scientists are doing is trying to find an explanation of evolution that is consistent with the second law.
No, they're not. Thermodynamics ain't got shit to do with the changes in biological organisms. Its about the movement of heat... Thermo.... Dynamics. Duh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 3:15 PM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 4:06 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 419 (561251)
05-19-2010 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by dkroemer
05-19-2010 3:29 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
the motivation of Darwinists is to promote atheistic humanism.
Not in the slightest. You're crazy.
When I asked a panel of experts if evolution applied to the soul no one answered. Why? Because they can't deny humans have souls. But they can't admit it either for career reasons.
What a stupid question...
Evolution applies to biological organisms. Or do you think non-human life also has souls?
What in any way could the evolution of, say, bacteria have to so with souls?
ABE:
I wouldn't call it a conspiracy.
I took a college biology course on evolution and they never once mentioned atheism nor humanism...
If you're right, then that must mean that they're keeping it hidden. That would make it a conspiracy.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 3:29 PM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 4:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 419 (561261)
05-19-2010 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by dkroemer
05-19-2010 4:09 PM


Re: But we do know of other factors
I'm combining both replies to one post.
From Message 222:
The first law of thermodynamics is considered to be the the law of conservation of energy. But there is no such thing as the conservation of energy. The history of physics is that whenever it appeared that energy was violated, physicists were able to invent a new kind of energy that kept energy conserved.
I don't believe you. Can you support this with an example or something?
All a biologist needs to know about the second law is that the chance of getting a protein by random mutations is the reciprocal 20600.
So what?
A biologist wouldnt care because that's not how the mecanism proposed in the Theory of Evolution works. Its not just a random assemblage, there's non-random selective pressure involved too.
That calculation is worthless.
From Message 223:
If the question was so stupid, why didn't they answer by accusations:
I can't speak for them. I suppose its because you're not worth thier time. You're an ignorant kook who thinks he's found something when he's got nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by dkroemer, posted 05-19-2010 4:09 PM dkroemer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 12:59 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 419 (561396)
05-20-2010 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by dkroemer
05-20-2010 12:59 AM


Re: But we do know of other factors
When an object slides on a table and friction slows it down, the kinetic energy is lost. It is not conserved. Scientists solved the problem by inventing a new energy: internal energy or heat energy. The kinetic energy is transformed into heat energy.
The Total Energy is conserved, not just the kinetic energy. And we know that kinetic energy is transered into heat energy because we can measure the temperature of the body and see that it has gone up. Like, your tires getting hot after driving on them... where do you think that heat comes from? Hell, just rub your palms together and you can feal the warmth.
Are you just jerkin' my chain here? This is unbelievable.
The calculation I gave does not take into consideration natural selection and facilitated variation.
Then the calculation is worthless. It doesn't represent anything in reality. Proteins would not have just randomly assembled. There's other factors involved.
So, to repeat:
You're mistaken about the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, it doesn't have anything to do with evolution, and evolution does not violate it.
Also, you're calculation of the probability of a protein forming is worthless and has nothing to do with evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by dkroemer, posted 05-20-2010 12:59 AM dkroemer has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024