Biological classification vs 'Kind'

It's a conclusive as evidence gets in science. It's as sure as the notion that the planets in our solar system travel in ellipses around the barycenter of the whole mess, down close to the Sun.OT for this thread, perhaps? Shall I start a new one?

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

You're a couple decades late on this one, Bob. Ardipithecus? Orrorin? Sahelanthropus?We've got the fossils, Bob.

Baranomes, huh? Really?When was the last time you used your vomeronasal organ, Bob? I'll bet it's been a while. Your VNO is a pair of little blind-ended tubes that you might have in the septum of your nose. Maybe half of adult humans do have one. Human fetuses have them in their palate, and have a structure in their brain called an Accessory Olfactory Bulb that's attached to the VNO with nerves. But, by around the time we're born, we resorb the AOB, the VNO either migrates higher up into the nose or disappears, and the nerves go away.New World monkeys, lemurs, and many other mammals have VNOs in their palates that are connected to AOBs, and they use them to sniff out girl/boy friends that are in the mood to mate. You may have seen a bull curl up his upper lip near a heifer's rear end - he's trying to get a whiff of her "scent" to his VNO to see if she's in heat.Oddly enough, though, great apes have no functional VNO. What they can have is a little blind tube in the septum of their nose, with no nerve connected to their AOB, because they resorbed their AOB while still a fetus. Like humans. Unlike New World monkeys or lemurs.Old world monkeys have varying degrees of development of VNO.Can you suggest a creationist scenario where this makes even a particle of sense? I can draw a family tree with lemurs, OW monkeys, NW monkeys, and great apes (including humans) where it makes very good sense. I can even offer a plausible scenario to explain why we don't have VNOs. I don't think creationism can do either.

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

There's the paydirt for this whole discussion - that word "secular." Borger tips his hand there - the same hand that the whole creationist crowd is holding - that "secular" literature = bad and religious apologetics = good. And that they only engage in the latter.

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

So can I take this to mean that gorillas, chimps, and humans are more sinful, or at least groan more under the weight of sin, than tarsiers or New World monkeys? And why take away our VNOs and AOBs in the same way in humans and in the other great apes?And I ask again: when, Bob, did you last use your vomeronasal organ?

Huh? God isn't smart enough to use carbonyl sulfide to make polypeptides from the amino acids that He made in the solar nebula?If you think a moment, you will likely come to the realization that once there was no life on this planet. Now there is. Abiogenesis is "life from no life," specifically, cellular/protocellular/viral life. So you theists are stuck with abiogenesis, unless your Creator was of one of those forms.

Then consider "baraminology" as falsified as phrenology, because chimps and humans do share common ancestry, as shown by about 417 lines of evidence that I'm aware of. Go read message 261, this thread, again, and explain to be once more why these "baranomes" related to vomeronasal organs "deteriorated" in the same exact way in great apes and in humans, but not in monkeys or lemurs.

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD