Is personal faith a debatable topic?

You can debate them as honestly as you want, but as long as they don't see your evidence as "evidence," it will not be successful. This is where I'm in agreement with what CS is saying. Teach them to think logically and use reasoning, like I do with my kids, and if they're smart enough they'll reach the same conclusions as science and value empirical evidence.Look at Buz. He doesn't believe there is evidence for the BB because he has a totally screwed up concept and understanding of the BB. He literally doesn't believe the concept he himself invented. And he's so fucked up in his other beliefs that he can't even realize that.Why would ANYONE waste time with him, or anyone that thinks like that? ICANT is the same way. But most here do so in an honest fashion, yet it is almost never successful. You can't. And it's not that you shouldn't because it's not acceptable to do so, you shouldn't because it's a waste of time.One main thing to remember is that their beliefs and your scientific evidence wouldn't change their lives at all. They'll just say, "Oh, that's how the sun formed" or, "Ok, now I understand how organisms evolve. Thanks." But that's about it. So what would be their reason for giving in to your argument and seeing it your way? To let you win? People are stubborn, they'd rather live with their ignorance than ever admit being wrong.I think that's what faith is, never being able to admit that you're just fucking wrong!- Oni

That's a fair point but it only seems relevant in a debate forum like this one. I don't think Hooah would have the ability to reference guys like cave and son to his sister in law.For the purpose of this forum and those of us who enjoy learning from these guys, it's great to debate the likes of Buz and ICANT. I have, like you , learned a lot. But if a result is what Hooah is looking for I think he won't get it from the sis in law. Absolutely. And I'll continue to do so. Sometimes what I think is the right answer turns out to be wrong, and in steps someone like cave or Wounded King and sets me straight. That's why I usually respond anyway, cause I'm close to the right answer I just need a better explanation.- Oni

You are in no position to "buy it"or not. You don't know more than those who study these subjects for a living and contribute to the advancement of science. So you should feel privileged to learn from them and stifle yourself. What do you mean by, You people?!Scientist are stubborn? Is that what you're saying? That they don't study the evidence properly? Cause that's where I get my answers from. I highly doubt the entire world community of scientist is in some kind of conspiracy to reject creationism... and I love conspiracies! This is just too far fetched.So in my view, it follows that the best answers we can get come from the fields of science, right? Why would I value any other source?- Oni

I knew it wasn't sis in law but I was to lazy to check. Sorry dude. EX, very EX, got it. lol- Oni

This, again, is not the correct model for the BB. What you have presented are BOTH your theories. One is creationism, the other is YOUR strawman version of the BB.But you don't get that do you? You actually think you understand the BB model and have exposed it's fallacies, right?This is my point hooah. Even if you get your EX to listen to some science, she will find away to misunderstand it and claim it has fallacies just like creationism. At that point it becomes pointless to argue with them IMO.- Oni

A faux-pas? lol. What is this Sex and the City and you just wore white after spring? I don't think it's not acceptable to do so, but it would depend on what the person you're attempting to debate feels about that. As a general rule? Well I don't think there is one, I think that's one we can make up for ourselves.I personally feel that anything is open for debate. It's the only way we can progress. And I do debate religion, so I'm following through.Some people feel you can't because it is a sacred belief that shouldn't be questioned. But personally I feel that's bullshit. It has perhaps been the tradition, but we can change that.I think that's the way to go about it. Debate the dogmas and tenets of the religions, then hopefully people won't rest their beliefs on 2000 year old books and get caught up with the rest of the intellectual society. I don't know what the figures are on that but I'd say that most people of faith who have ignored scientific inquiry in their personal lives, yet pursued a religious education on blind faith, have a very good chance of not being interested in the actual science.I hate to keep bringing Buz up but: Take his interpretation of the BB, it is absolutely wrong and yet he feels he has learned the science but he just doesn't "buy it." Someone like that is just being ignorant and perhaps doesn't want to learn the actual science because it may further expose their beliefs as false.But if you find someone who you show the science to and they find it at least curious, maybe, just maybe they'll try to learn it properly. I see. Yeah I feel you. In my life my ex-wife is Christian, my kids were raised going to church, Sunday school and praying. But, I love science and exposed them to that. Took them to museums, bought them books (kids LOVE dinosaurs), took them to the planetarium, did science projects with them, explain the BB to them, how galaxies and planets and stars formed, how organisms evolved, etc... And now they love it, because one thing we'll have on our side, as long as we expose kids to it is, church is boring and science is COOL!Planetarium -vs- Church? Get the fuck outta here, hands down, planetarium wins. Kids don't want to be in church, the only thing that keeps them there is fear. Make sure YOU explain to your son that he doesn't need to feel that fear. He'll listen, kids are smart, they can see through adult bullshit. Just actively play a role in exposing him to good science.Currently my kids are 13 and 11 and neither of them believes anything about god, or at least that's the impression I get. My 13 year old has openly claimed to be atheist. The younger one hasn't said anything but she is the one that's more into science than the older one. She loves biology and astronomy. If anything, she may have a deist approach to the question of god, or perhaps agnostic.- Oni

Send me some pics you sex thang. LOl There are lots of cool science things to experience in NY. I'll be there next week, and I can't wait to hit the museums. Dude, any time, contact me, private if you want. I've been through divorce, kids, and dealing with their separation, any time you need some help and/or advice hit me up. Seriously bro, I'll try to help.- Oni