Exactly 'HOW' intelligent must a Designer be ?

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Originally posted by Philip:
--Jeff (and John). ‘Intelligence’ is a loaded word, meaning different things to all of us. ----To me it implies ‘metaphysical’ wisdom, (as the wisdom of natural things is passing). ---To others it may be, mere IQ (the ability to score high on tests?),
--the ability to ‘catch’ a ‘beautiful’ wife (sorry John, I used that word ‘beauty’, un-objectively),
--the ability to make excellent order out of chaos (oops, I did it again, John).
--the ability to be free from ‘sin’.
--etc.

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In otherwords you are tailoring your interpretation of 'intelligence' so that it will match your picture of god. Why do you do this? Is it because you have already descided that your god created the universe and now you are looking for a theory that you can interpret in such a way that it supports what you believe to be truth?Slightly off topic. Be careful of the 'free of sin' part. The god of the bible has murdered and has therefore sinned and would, by your definition of intelligence, not be a candidate for the post of creator.------------------
compmage

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[This message has been edited by compmage, 06-12-2002]

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[This message has been edited by compmage, 06-12-2002]

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Originally posted by Philip:

--Of course. Scientific inquiry involves hypotheses, gathering empirical data, testing, and looking for a theory c/w results.

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You are doing none of those. You have already decided that god created the universe etc. You are looking for a theory that supports your view, instead of examining the evidence and picking the theory that best explains it.

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Originally posted by Philip:

--What, some people don’t define intelligence as wisdom, to varying extents? Even Sir Huxley cited ‘avoiding sin’ (albeit, for Evo reasons).

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Some people do, however, you do not have to be wise to be intelligent. I also don't think 'avoiding sin' has any bearing on your intelligence.

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Originally posted by Philip:

--That you focused on the last arbitrary definition of intelligence I merely postulated seems apparent.

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I was merely pointing out a possible problem with that definition.

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Originally posted by Philip:

The ID as murdering/sinning (in or out of the Bible) seems more a projection of bias. For, how can the thing that is formed complain to the one that formed it, saying, He has made thus and thus and then sinfully murdered them?’

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Like a father saying to his child; "I brought you into this world, I can take you out." Murder is wrong, regardless of your relation to the person that you are murdering.

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Originally posted by Philip:

On the other hand, consider the ‘mass-murders’ by Israelites that were left undone in Canaan after the Exodus? Had they been finished, the US and other countries probably would not be under Palestinian Terrorist attacks.

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It is unjust to punish someone for something that they have not yet done or because their of what children might become. And how many innocents would you have been willing to kill in the hope that you had exterminate all possible future terrorists?

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Originally posted by Philip:

Also, when the damned are resurrected (assuming the ‘ethical intelligence’ is valid) there should be infinite justice against sin, right? Any premature death(s) (or murder as you call them) by a just ID would LESSEN THE ETERNAL SEVERITY of hell-fire. This is smart and timely mercy to the wretched life-form/soul, no? Add that to the IQ.

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Already being discussed.------------------
compmage

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[This message has been edited by compmage, 06-18-2002]