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Author Topic:   Problems with evolution? Submit your questions.
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 21 of 752 (566016)
06-22-2010 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by SwampDonkey
06-20-2010 2:51 AM


Re: Question
Hi SwampDonkey,

Providing you ever come back I have a question.

Information is required for evolution to take place so my question is:

DNA has a tremendous amount of informatin stored in it, where did all that information come from?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by SwampDonkey, posted 06-20-2010 2:51 AM SwampDonkey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by subbie, posted 06-22-2010 1:59 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 41 by Modulous, posted 06-23-2010 12:28 PM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 24 of 752 (566047)
06-22-2010 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by subbie
06-22-2010 1:59 PM


Re: Question
Hi subbie,

subbie writes:

Meaningless without a workable definition of "information," which no creo has ever provided.

Especially one you agree with.

I take information to be a message with a sender that is responsible for the information and a receiver.

The information is any message the sender chooses to compose.

I know this won't meet your approval but so what?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by subbie, posted 06-22-2010 1:59 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2010 5:00 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 42 by Dr Jack, posted 06-23-2010 1:03 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 65 by subbie, posted 06-24-2010 12:12 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 38 of 752 (566146)
06-23-2010 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Dr Adequate
06-22-2010 5:00 PM


Re: Question
Hi Dr,

Dr Adequate writes:

OK, so I suppose in the biological case the sender is evolution, the message is the genomes ... and the receivers, I guess, are the ribosomes.

How can evolution be the producer of the information?

If evolution is the result of the processing of the information that is sent to the receiver by the sender.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2010 5:00 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-23-2010 11:28 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2010 11:57 AM ICANT has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 43 of 752 (566197)
06-23-2010 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Dr Adequate
06-23-2010 11:57 AM


Re: Question
Hi Dr.

Dr Adequate writes:

Uh ... by evolution being the producer of the information?

I am asking the questions because I don't have a clue.

You are supposed to be the one with the answers according to what you put forth in Professional Debate: Scientific Evidence for/against Evolution.

So let me rephrase my question.

Evolution is produced by mutations, and natural selection.

Without information nothing can take place.

Information is contained in a cell nucleus the size of a pin point. The human genome stored on DNA in this nucleus is over six billion letters total. A copy of this information is contained in almost every cell in our body.

My question was where does all this information come from?

If evolution produces this information, how does it produce it?

If mutations produce this information, how does it produce it?

Which brings me back to my original question.

DNA has a tremendous amount of information stored in it, where did all that information come from?

As I understand information it has to be created.

Is there anyway that information can begin to exist without being created?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2010 11:57 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2010 2:57 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2010 10:59 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 63 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2010 11:03 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 45 of 752 (566204)
06-23-2010 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Modulous
06-23-2010 12:28 PM


Re: information origins.
Hi Mod,

Modulous writes:

The answer therefore is: From the laws of physics. How did it get into the genome? Work was done. Where did the information from the laws of physics come from? Not a question for evolution.

Satisfied?

No.

Because there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Modulous, posted 06-23-2010 12:28 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-23-2010 3:25 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 58 by Modulous, posted 06-23-2010 4:59 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 46 of 752 (566206)
06-23-2010 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Coragyps
06-23-2010 2:57 PM


Re: Question
Hi Coragyps,

Coragyps writes:

From mutations in the DNA of earlier generations of organisms, ICANT.

So where did the information come from that caused the mutation?

I can understand how the reduction of information could happen.

But not how it could increase as new information would need to be coded. There is no known natural process for this to happen.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2010 2:57 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2010 3:18 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 55 by bluegenes, posted 06-23-2010 3:50 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 49 of 752 (566214)
06-23-2010 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Dr Jack
06-23-2010 1:03 PM


Re: Question
Hi Mr Jack,

Mr Jack writes:

2. It's not obvious how it applies to evolution. What is the sender? What is the receiver? What is the message?

What difference does it make what is the sender?
What difference does it make what is the receiver?
What difference does it make what the message is?

A processor can process information that is input into it.
The processor can then display this information on a screen.
The processor can also store the information on a hard drive.

Information as we know it comes from a mind.

But where did the information come from that is stored in the DNA?

Is there an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally?

Remember I have no idea what I am talking about. I am just asking questions trying to find information.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Dr Jack, posted 06-23-2010 1:03 PM Dr Jack has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Dr Jack, posted 06-24-2010 6:43 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 50 of 752 (566216)
06-23-2010 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by New Cat's Eye
06-23-2010 3:25 PM


Re: information origins.
Hi CS,

CS writes:

The process explained by the Theory of Evolution does.

That is: Random Mutation + Natural Selection.

No that tells you what happened.

It does not tell you were the new information came from.

I think I need to wait until the fellow that promised all the answers to every question to come back and answer my question.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-23-2010 3:25 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by kjsimons, posted 06-23-2010 3:41 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 53 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-23-2010 3:46 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 51 of 752 (566218)
06-23-2010 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Coragyps
06-23-2010 3:18 PM


Re: Question
Hi Coragyps,

Coragyps writes:

Oh, but there is. Mutation and natural selection is one such natural process.

How does the mutation or natural selection produce new information?

Do you have an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2010 3:18 PM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2010 3:47 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 56 by bluegenes, posted 06-23-2010 4:00 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 57 by Taq, posted 06-23-2010 4:49 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 61 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2010 10:56 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 64 of 752 (566276)
06-23-2010 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Coragyps
06-23-2010 3:47 PM


Re: Question
Hi Coragyps,

Coragyps writes:

Yup. The DNA in the nuclei of the cells (excluding red blood cells) in my body. You have a couple of trillion examples of your own.

My parents produced my DNA I don't know where you got yours from.

I would assume your parents.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2010 3:47 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-24-2010 2:10 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
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