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Author Topic:   Problems with evolution? Submit your questions.
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 457 of 752 (598603)
01-01-2011 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by mike the wiz
01-01-2011 1:52 PM


Re: Why?
Everything I say means something ...
Perhaps everything you say was intended to mean something. And maybe some of it was even intended to relate to the post to which you were ostensibly replying.
But if so then the actual execution of the post seems to have fallen short of your ambitions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 1:52 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 465 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 463 of 752 (598609)
01-01-2011 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by mike the wiz
01-01-2011 1:54 PM


Re: Another test
No - the cosmological constant was his gravest error, he admitted it.
The constancy of the speed of light in a vacuum, which is denoted by c, is actually a completely different thing from the "cosmological constant", which is denoted by Λ.
Don't you sometimes wish that you were less ignorant?
I am saying that he proved that light, previously held as the most unchangeable, fixed thing, could be bent by gravity.
People knew that already. But General Relativity predicted that light would undergo twice as much angular deflection as it would in Newtonian mechanics. (See here.)
And of course people also knew that this "unchangeable thing" could be bent by ordinary refraction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 1:54 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 466 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:29 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 469 of 752 (598618)
01-01-2011 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by mike the wiz
01-01-2011 2:22 PM


Re: Why?
I think it's pretty clear.
This is only one of the many things that you are wrong about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:22 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 471 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:42 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 472 of 752 (598621)
01-01-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by mike the wiz
01-01-2011 2:29 PM


Re: Another test
Actually I only thought you were confusing what was meant.
I quoted Einstein saying that c was a constant. You replied by saying, and I quote, "No - the cosmological constant was his gravest error, he admitted it." And you thought that I was confusing what is meant?
Always I am learning.
Apparently what you are learning is how to spout nonsense.
Try learning some science, a little basic logic, and the meanings of some --- perhaps even all --- of the words that you wish to employ.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:29 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:56 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 477 of 752 (598629)
01-01-2011 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 470 by mike the wiz
01-01-2011 2:41 PM


Re: Last Post
A quick response.
Yes indeed. If the time stamps are correct, you can have spent no more than nine minutes writing that --- and it shows.
Perhaps you could take a little time, or a lot, to give some coherency to your thoughts. If we are fortunate, coherence of language may follow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:41 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 494 of 752 (598695)
01-01-2011 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 475 by mike the wiz
01-01-2011 2:56 PM


Re: Another test
You request I learn base logic.
So I was wrong when I said the following is fallacious?
X = Z therefore Z = X.
"Wrong"? That is the very mildest word I would use for someone who denies that the relation of equality is symmetric.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by mike the wiz, posted 01-01-2011 2:56 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 497 of 752 (598789)
01-02-2011 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 496 by shadow71
01-02-2011 1:32 PM


I am not saying that NS was not involved after the jump from prokaryote to eukaroyte, or that NS & mutation were not involved in prokaryote prior to the jump.
Then how does this "jump" differ from the evolution of any other form of symbiosis? And in what sense is it a "jump"?
What exactly are you visualizing as happening here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 496 by shadow71, posted 01-02-2011 1:32 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by shadow71, posted 01-02-2011 2:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 499 of 752 (598796)
01-02-2011 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 498 by shadow71
01-02-2011 2:54 PM


Lane and Martin state "The transition to complex life on Earth was a unique event..."
I interpret that to mean a jump from simple prokaroyte to a complex eukaroyte.
Saying that it was unique doesn't mean that it was a saltation.
And I don't see how a saltation would have worked. Surely they can't have "jumped" in a single step from no symbiosis to obligate endosymbiosis. How do you envisage that happening?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by shadow71, posted 01-02-2011 2:54 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by shadow71, posted 01-02-2011 7:49 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 501 of 752 (598811)
01-02-2011 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by shadow71
01-02-2011 7:49 PM


I am not a biologists, but can only rely on the papers I read by the experts in the field. Carl Woese's work indicates that there may have been a saltation whereas the proK's, EuroK's and Archaea arose ...
How does Woese's work imply a saltation?
If you're thinking of HGT, then obviously there has to be diversity before that can have any substantial effect. It can't create the three domains, it can only blur the boundaries between them.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by shadow71, posted 01-02-2011 7:49 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by shadow71, posted 01-03-2011 5:24 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 505 of 752 (598842)
01-03-2011 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Blue Jay
01-03-2011 1:54 AM


And, the endosymbiotic origin of organelles almost certainly didn't happen in a single, giant "jump": for example, there are many kinds of eukaryotic cells alive today that absorb prokaryotes by phagocytosis, then, for whatever reason, fail to digest them, and simply let the prokaryotes live, grow and reproduce inside them, creating a co-habitation relationship that is midway between separate organisms and fully-symbiotic organisms.
Can we hear more about this please?
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Blue Jay, posted 01-03-2011 1:54 AM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by Blue Jay, posted 01-03-2011 1:01 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 514 of 752 (598932)
01-04-2011 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 511 by shadow71
01-03-2011 7:13 PM


It appears there was a saltation, a unique jump, from simple life to complex life that the scientists cannot explain. A translation that is not accountable by Darwin's or neo-Darwinian theory.
Saltations by HGT may not be Darwinian; but they are certainly neo-Darwinian; and clearly Woese thinks he can explain the saltations that he thinks occurred --- he thinks they happened by HGT.
I believe this supports my theory of planned transition from original life to evolution and gradual changes in life.
In order to commit the God-of-the-Gaps fallacy, it is first necessary to find some gaps. What we have here are transitions that scientists say are explicable by endosymbiosis and HGT respectively. You have quoted them doing so.
These mechanisms would doubtless have briefly surprised (and then continually delighted) Mr Charles Darwin, but that doesn't somehow render them inutile as explanations.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by shadow71, posted 01-03-2011 7:13 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 547 of 752 (599375)
01-06-2011 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by shadow71
01-06-2011 7:56 PM


I thought I was just told by many on this board that if I cannot show evidence of creation it was not acceptalble to the scientific world?
Yes, quite so. Why do you mention it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by shadow71, posted 01-06-2011 7:56 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 550 by shadow71, posted 01-07-2011 11:45 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 560 of 752 (599497)
01-07-2011 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by shadow71
01-07-2011 11:45 AM


My question is why isn't the hypothesis that God created the universe and all that is in it, a scientific hypothesis according to the test above?
I'm fairly sure that he didn't create "all that is in it" --- for example, some of the motor cars were created by Ford.
As to whether it's a scientific hypothesis, it could be made into one only by being more specific. The problem is that when you combine the proposition that God can do things that are impossible with the proposition that he moves in mysterious ways, you have a hypothesis which is consistent with any conceivable state of affairs, and which is therefore untestable.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by shadow71, posted 01-07-2011 11:45 AM shadow71 has seen this message but not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 565 of 752 (606651)
02-27-2011 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by Tram law
02-27-2011 1:28 PM


The only answers to evolution is it's either evolution or creationism.
Well, no, we can imagine several other answers. However for the most part no-one advocates them because they're neither well-evidenced nor in conformity with their religious beliefs.
However, it is possible in principle and occasionally in practice for people to believe something different from either.
The moral is that creationist rhetoric against evolution or against the theory of evolution wouldn't particularly confirm their view even if their anti-evolutionary arguments were right --- not while we can imagine a whole bunch of other non-evolutionary views which are equally poorly evidenced. Reason would require that we should either find evidence that allowed us to pick one non-evolutionary hypothesis, or remain agnostic between them. The fact that out of all of them only creationism is popular would not give us a rational cause for preferring it.

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 Message 564 by Tram law, posted 02-27-2011 1:28 PM Tram law has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 582 of 752 (606970)
03-01-2011 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 578 by havoc
03-01-2011 10:29 AM


Re: Cows
I think that darwin and others tried to lay out ways in which the theory could be invalidated. Darwin said a feature that could not exisit through a series of small changes. Behe coined "ireducible complexity" to falsify under these terms.
Even Behe seems to have realized he's wrong by now. But creationists don't drop an idea just because it's been proved wrong, that's why they're creationists.
Sory but the name escapes me but another founder of darwinian evo said anything like motors or magnets found to exist in living things would falsify the theory.
I believe you're thinking of Professor Imaginary Madeupperson of Nonesuch University.
It is unfalsifiable because it is "DOGMA"
The actual reason you can't think of anything that falsifies it is that it's true.

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