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Author Topic:   Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2
NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 154 of 295 (581273)
09-14-2010 8:55 PM


That old Chestnut
I have seen this OP brought up in at least two other forums on a regular consistent basis. It's an idea that certainly is never constipated. Unfortunately.

So it's not an original thought. There are ZERO "contradictions" or errors between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. The only erroneous thing going on here is the OP.

I'm not sure how and or why people can expect to be taken seriously when inane posts like this are put forward, especially given that it is to do with accuracy and inerrancy.

One has to be in the mood for a pointless argument to even bother lifting a finger on this one. I've debated it with people until I am blue in the face and ready to be carried out to an ambulance on a gurney "MEDIC!" Finally after hours of mindless banter and profundity (along the never ending deep abyss kind) the penny finally drops.

Is there ever any admission of mistake or an apology? Of course not. Then a few days weeks or months pass and another "all comer" posts the same ridiculous argument.

I'm very new here, first post (go figure). Seeing this post feels like ground hog day. Also of note, a humungous proportion of posts in this thread appear to have absolutely nothing to do with the original post?

Any way, hi all.

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Replies to this message:
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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 156 of 295 (581288)
09-14-2010 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
09-14-2010 9:35 PM


Re: That old Chestnut
I lifted a finger to join the forum indeed, very observant of you. But not so much to join this thread debate (not so observant of you).

The premise and statement in the OP is one of two things 1. a deceptive intentional LIE or 2. Written by someone who can not read.

My first substantive point made clear enough my views on the first post.

Nice hat by the way. Do you have anything substantial to add or is this your way of "welcoming" me to the forum?

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 158 of 295 (581290)
09-14-2010 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by ringo
09-14-2010 10:30 PM


Re: That old Chestnut
You're a member not a moderator right?

It appears posts that are lies are welcome here, is that correct??? Because I don't see any point in hanging about here if they are.

As I have said, I have done this stupid non arguement to death mate. It's foolishness not to mention a baseless lie.

Has anyone managed to clearly point out what the illedged differences or contradictions are between G1 and G2 no? They have only demonstrated their ignorance so until someone does, I will continue to state that the premise in the original post is a lie and not worthy of further comment.

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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 161 of 295 (581299)
09-14-2010 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by ringo
09-14-2010 10:44 PM


Re: That old Chestnut
If this site is a legitimate bonifide intelligent even playing field and not just a "kick the shit of out of the creation view point" FRONT then the first post in this thread would have been shut down before it spawned legs and evolved into a complete mind f---!!

The most inept appologetics you've seen in a while?? HAH Don't make me laugh.

This ain't apologetics mate and the field of apologetics deserves an apology from you for thinking it is.

From the man with Facts are Facts as his signature too!!!????

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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 165 of 295 (581308)
09-14-2010 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN
09-14-2010 11:17 PM


Re: That old Chestnut
The original post, (which is what I am addressing, not what ever side show you and your collegue here have been entertaining yoursleves with), needs to substantiate itself first and back itself up, which it has not done - it is for want of a better word, a false statement.

It would be like me starting a thread stating something like; Dawkins contradicts himself on page 23 of the God Delusion by stating that there are no such thing as Dinosaurs when in page 25 he clearly states that he quite fancies a brontesaurous burger and chips of an evening, after a hard day blowing hot air. Then expecting an evolutionist to enter into an "Apologetic" debate with me. Laughable I know but thats exactly what your up to here. I'm calling you on it.

Cheers.

PS THE ORIGINAL POST BREAKS RULE NUMBER 4 and probably more rules than that aswell. OKAY PAL??? IS THAT CLEAR??????????

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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 166 of 295 (581310)
09-14-2010 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by nwr
09-14-2010 11:45 PM


Re: That old Chestnut
I have read it, which is my whole point. Its been written by someone who cant read, and this has been ably pointed out by others who speak sense in this thread. Why has that not been acknowledged yet????????????????

I'll tell you why? because it never is!!!!!!!


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 168 of 295 (581327)
09-15-2010 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Adminnemooseus
09-15-2010 1:00 AM


Re: And your input to clear up the mater is...?
Not until the orignal poster proves that they actually do conflict, no.

The original post does not substantiate and or warrant a reasonable response, nor am I frothing at the mouth. Im simply sending a few shots over the starboard bow to you folks. Your the admin I suggest you sort out bunkum like this if you want to be seen as a legitimate debating site. I mean this sort of disinformation has been around internet forum traps for ions, and that is exactly what it is.

I'm not suggesting that there are not legitimate debates that people can raise as discussions about perceived or illedged contradiction in the bible, but the original post is not one of them, it has been probably cut and pasted from another site by this poster and or from a muslim fundamentalist bible disinformation site.

If I really really really have to blow this pathetic non arguement out of the water I will do it on one condition and that is that if in a few weeks another illiterate decides to trundle it out again that it will be shut down forth with by your admin team because I will have proven it to be in violation of rule 4....is that a deal????

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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 170 of 295 (581346)
09-15-2010 7:24 AM


Evidence and Primary Material Part 1 Genesis Chapter 1
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

END OF DAY ONE

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

END OF DAY TWO

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

END OF DAY THREE

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

END OF DAY FOUR

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

END OF DAY FIVE

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

END OF DAY SIX

So clearly IE CRYSTAL CLEARLY WE HAVE THE ORDER OF THINGS GIVEN IN GENISIS CHAPTER 1.

Day 1 Light
Day 2 Firmament water
Day 3 Land Vegetation
Day 4 Sun moon stars
Day 5 Fowl Fish
Day 6 Animals man.

Now I request that you provide evidence and primary material that supports your LIE that anything in Genisis Chapter two refutes or contradicts the order of things CLEARLY laid out for all of mankind to see and read through out the history of MANKIND until todays date.

Please and thank you.


NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 171 of 295 (581352)
09-15-2010 7:57 AM


Evidence and Primary Material PART 2 -Genesis Chapter 2
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

END OF DAY SEVEN

NOW PAY ATTENTION!! this is your primary school lesson in the basic understanding of the English language for fools who are looking for loop holes out of hell that do not exist.

We have come to the end of the order of things and the scripture now goes on to explain more as to how things took place NOT WHEN they took place but how they took place. OKAY?? Therefore there is NO CONTRADICTION around time frames what so ever between G1 and G2.

This is where the annoying inanity of your position comes sharply into focus. I expect, nay I demand it to be acknowledged by you ALL TODAY. NOW!! Followed by a humble apology.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

The scripture mentions plants yes, but not the day or time frame they where created, because this was made clear in chapter one. It also makes mention that man obvioulsy can't till the ground until he is made.

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This scriptures address how the LORD God formed man NOT WHEN AND OR WHAT DAY! So no contradiction here.

Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

God planted a garden to put man in, NO THIS DOESNT MEAN GOD CREATED PLANTS it means HE planted another GARDEN!! SO no contradiction here!!

Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

NO MENTION OF THE TIMING just addressing that plants where made to grow OUT OF THE GROUND, so again no contradiction here.

Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

Gen 2:11 The name of the first isPison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

THIS VERSE IS STATING AGAIN THAT MAN AND ANIMALS WHERE MADE OUT OF THE GROUND NOT THE ORDER THEY WHERE MADE OUT OF THE GROUND or which day - SO NO contradiction here. It simply states that animals where brought to ADAM to name them, it does not say that Adam was made and then the animals where made after ADAM AT ALL!

Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Clearly EVE HAS NOT YET BEEN MADE AT THE TIME ADAM WAS NAMING THE ANIMALS

Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

HERE EVE IS MADE AND WEDDED to ADAM, NO MENTION OF THE DAY OR THE ORDER OF THINGS AND NO CONTRADICTION!

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed

I NOW AWAIT VINDICATION FROM THE ADMINISTRATORS OF THIS SITE acknowledging that the position of the Original post is in CLEAR violation of the this forums RULES AND AN APOLOGY FROM ALL PEOPLE WHO MUST NOW ADMIT THAT THEY HAVE PERVERTED THE MEANING OF SCRIPTURE TO FURTHER THEIR OWN LIEING AGENDA.

THANK YOU

MEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDIC!!!!!!!!!

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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 172 of 295 (581354)
09-15-2010 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Nij
09-15-2010 4:43 AM


Re: Oh yay, another one.
You have the effrontery to ask me to provide evidence and primary material? Are you out of your freaken mind?

All good bible bashing fundamentalists know their bibles, which is not why we get called fundamentalists of course but it should be, because we know and understand the fundamentals of the bible and frankly to be asked to “provide evidence and primary material” by the likes of you is an insult to the word of God and to any bible scholar, an insult of the highest order.

That said you dont need to be a bible scholar (I'm not) or fundamentalist to have a reading ability of an eleven year old.

Yours is idiosy of the highest order and I have no doubt you worship RUGBY RACING AND BEER.

And what do you mean by Yay another one? Go figure that there might be people able to argue the FACTS about the bible in a place like this, the sad thing is I got suckered into gracing you with a response that is most undeserved and unwarranted.

That man is created on the sixth day as the very PINNACLE AND ZENNITH of God’s finest of all creations is never and will never be under scrutiny or question especially not by some jumped up little arrogant snot nosed person who is under the delusion that he/she has evolved from an ape. Now pay attention, and go and read your PRIMARY SCHOOL material.

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 209 of 295 (581461)
09-15-2010 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ICANT
09-15-2010 12:35 PM


Re: Oh yay, another one.
Hi Thanks for the welcome. (I CANT)

I don’t have a degree, so I'm not sure if you are referring to me when you make that comment.

Honestly I'm not particularly interested in "debating" a non negotiable non debatable topic much further, Im still waiting for the humble pie eating competition to begin in this crib and or an apology from the people who are blatantly perverting, twisting and logomachistically attempting (but failing) to destroy scripture.

If you disagree with what I have said here I would prefer you to voice your views here in the first instance. But I will check out your thread and thanks for the invitation bro.

You seem to be implying that I am not "spiritually discerning" the scripture here. I fundamentally take umbrage at that remark. Your comment would never be something that would pass through the lips of a "literal fundamentalist" either.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

The scripture has already been delivered via the discernment of the Holy Spirit, it is not open to your private interpretation or, what did you say again? Oh that’s right your disagreements. LOL

I’m shaking my head in utter astonishment whilst muttering the words “literal fundamentalist if you please” under my breath.

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.


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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 211 of 295 (581465)
09-15-2010 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Theodoric
09-15-2010 6:16 PM


Re: What version is the correct
Im not getting into that smoke screen diversion in this joke of a thread with you jokers until at least one joker admits the error of their ways regarding the OP. AND THATS FINAL!

PS I don't enter into debates with the "Us" and the "we" Pack rape kind of ruins my buzz

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD

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Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
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NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 214 of 295 (581477)
09-15-2010 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by ringo
09-15-2010 6:41 PM


Re: What version is the correct
Oh my word, you are really I in La La land.

I will leave you all to this one. Of note of course, my blowing of this pathetic Original Post out of the water has been completely ignored. How unusual, now the descent into insults backed up by warnings. The fix is in, "Get rid of this truth merchant before he turns the place upside down". LOL

When Christ comes down in a cloud for all to see you will say "See I told you. Dawkins was right! An Alien!!!!!!"

Blessings to you, but seriously you people have shown yourselves to be complete infant analysts, lacking in a basic ability to read English let alone fluffing about with Hebrew and Greek. Leave the Hebrew and Greek out of it until you can address the original freaken post in English. Your right you have descended three levels deep into a total and utter quagmire of off topic disinformation.

I could show you the first seven words of the bible in Hebrew and demonstrate that they have at least 50 mathematical patterns of seven running through them which proves IRREFUTABLY beyond all cavil that a supernatural power delivered the words through a man.

But Im not casting my pearls to swine.

And I couldn’t give a flying "highly evolved” monkeys stinken arm pit if Im 86ed from this freak show forth with. "Refreshing?" Heh, this thread is a golden shower. A donkey fart would be refreshing in here HAH!!!!!!!!

Love Peace and Mung Beans


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Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 7:18 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has responded
 Message 217 by ringo, posted 09-15-2010 7:39 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has responded

NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 216 of 295 (581481)
09-15-2010 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by jar
09-15-2010 7:18 PM


Re: What version is the correct
Go back and read my two posts where I have posted the complete chapters of Genisis 1 and 2 and made comments.

I repeat I am not showing the "us" or "we" anything. I will discuss the topic based on the OP, Im not debating with a team of disinformation specialists who can't read Englisg here.

Somebody needs to get real here and now or this whole site must be duly mocked as a total farce. No scatch that, a half way house of people going in and or coming out of the lunatic asylum.

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.

Edited by NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 7:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by jar, posted 09-15-2010 7:44 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has responded

NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3185 days)
Posts: 51
Joined: 09-14-2010


Message 219 of 295 (581486)
09-15-2010 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by ringo
09-15-2010 7:39 PM


Re: What version is the correct
Implicit

1. implied, rather than expressly stated: implicit agreement.
2. unquestioning or unreserved; absolute: implicit trust; implicit obedience; implicit confidence.
3. potentially contained (usually fol. by in ): to bring out the drama implicit in the occasion.
4. Mathematics . (of a function) having the dependent variable not explicitly expressed in terms of the independent variables, as x 2 + y 2 = 1. Compare explicit ( def. 5 ) .
5. Obsolete

There are a couple of potential meanings that can be taken from your use of the word implicit, we can see here what the word means, but I have no idea what you mean in your uses of the word as it applies to either agreeing and defending the OP and or refuting the fact that I have soundly refuted this silly OP.

Your statement is more meaningless than the original post, and I've really done a lot more than lift a finger here at your request, so I suggest you bring a humble apology and acknowklede that the OP is in fact a groundless baseless false statement.

Raising further moot and meaningless points only serves to confirm my suspicians about this site made clear in my previous post.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by ringo, posted 09-15-2010 7:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by ringo, posted 09-15-2010 8:03 PM NOMA&NOPAAKAAN ORPHAN has responded

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