Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8965 total)
62 online now:
Coragyps, DrJones*, dwise1, frako, kjsimons, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Stile, Tangle (9 members, 53 visitors)
Newest Member: javier martinez
Post Volume: Total: 873,118 Year: 4,866/23,288 Month: 1,771/1,286 Week: 85/353 Day: 12/20 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Where are all the gods?
jar
Member
Posts: 32355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 61 of 122 (568848)
07-18-2010 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by bluescat48
07-18-2010 9:43 AM


Re: Cleveland
"Better here than Philadelphia".

Extra points to the first person to identify that remark.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by bluescat48, posted 07-18-2010 9:43 AM bluescat48 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2010 7:59 PM jar has responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3133
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 62 of 122 (568903)
07-18-2010 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
07-18-2010 9:55 AM


Re: Cleveland
That is what is on the tombstone of W.C Fields

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 07-18-2010 9:55 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 07-18-2010 8:06 PM ramoss has not yet responded
 Message 64 by Huntard, posted 07-19-2010 7:19 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 63 of 122 (568904)
07-18-2010 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by ramoss
07-18-2010 7:59 PM


Re: Cleveland
And still true today.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2010 7:59 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 747 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 64 of 122 (568951)
07-19-2010 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by ramoss
07-18-2010 7:59 PM


Re: Cleveland
Actually, the internment marker only mentions his stagename and his years of birth and death.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by ramoss, posted 07-18-2010 7:59 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 65 of 122 (568963)
07-19-2010 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
07-06-2010 4:32 AM


"Jumped Up Chimpanzee" writes:


Why would he appear in the middle of the night, when you're most likely alone and in a sleepy, dreamy state? What's he trying to do anyway, scare you the Hell out of you? (That would make sense, I suppose.)

Why not appear in the daylight in front of large crowds?

Well it did that according to the stories in the bible, and as soon as a little time went by, they stopped believing in Him again. I ask myself the same questions some times. What I think is maybe He got tired of showing up, and then having us lose faith time and time again. So then because He knew how things would be, He sent His Son and changed the rules. He became less harsh on us, but then made us have to believe in Him by faith. denying or believing in God is a personal thing, between you and God.

And why not hang around? At least stay for a coffee. Why can he only appear for only a few seconds? Who makes these rules up?

Well His Son had some wine with us. When He left, He deposited the Holy Spirit. Obviously you can't see that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 07-06-2010 4:32 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 07-19-2010 11:03 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 66 of 122 (568969)
07-19-2010 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Dr Adequate
07-06-2010 10:00 AM


"Dr Adequate" writes:


Hasn't that story always struck you as monstrously implausible? I mean, the Jews get to see the plague of blood, the plague of frogs, the plague of lice, the plague of flies, the plague of livestock, the plague of boils, the plague of hail, the plague of locusts, the plague of darkness, the death of the firstborn, the parting of the Red Sea, the rain of manna, the miracle of Horeb, the pillar of smoke by day and fire by night ... and they remain profoundly unimpressed. Yahweh, they think, is not so much, and they needn't worry about pissing him off by making their own god and worshiping that.

I agree, never understood it. But then again, my own faith wonders from time to time, and I've felt some very strong things in my life, and experienced my own miracles. Believing, and staying strong in your faith is pretty hard. So then maybe it wasn't so hard for them to lose faith. 40 years in a desert can make you weak, and break even the strongest of people down.

Meanwhile, today, when God never shows up (and you get all offended if someone suggests he might think to put in an appearance once in a while) this same god has 2.2 billion worshipers based just on something they read in a book. Which is rather less impressive.

Well I don't get offended, you just made that one up. I can't speak for God, I can only give my opinion.
The bible specifically says we are to believe by faith, so I am not expecting Him to show up, until He returns (whenever that is).
I used to get angry that He didn't show up. But I did not understand about the Holy Spirit.

Now, accepting for the sake of argument the magical elements of the Exodus story, does the behavior of the Jews sound remotely like anything anyone would ever actually do? It's more implausible than the miracles themselves.

I don't take the stories of the OT as fact. They could be, they might not. It is the morals of those stories that are important. I've spent just a few posts debating those morals here.

To this day, I see the Jews (hasidic jews) living in a weird way. They dress the part, and have all these dam rules, but then cheat and steal and lie to our government. These traditions(dressing and rules) have gone on for thousands of years. It's almost like a continuation of what happened in the desert. It wouldn't bother me at all, but they come across as extremely hypocritical. But so what, we are all hypocritical at times...right? The mistake is looking towards man for God, when we should be looking towards God for God.

Probing me with these silly questions won't reveal God to you. So all I can say is when I looked, I did not find Him either, but I kept looking, and then He came to me.

Does it change anything? well it tweaked me a little, and I have struggled how to convey the love I feel from God to others. The trick is prayer. True love does not criticize, judge, or condemn, it just loves. It gives hope.

Even if you don't believe in God, isn't loving people the RIGHT thing to do? How deep is that love? Can you forgive? Do you not want to believe in God because you are not ready to follow His rule of loving people beyond what you are capable of? Do you seek a greater love? Is it too much work for you, or do you prefer the status quo?

That's what it is all about. It's not about seeing proof of His existence.
It's not about proving the stories of the OT.

It's about knowing that you do not need to go to a temple to be in God's presence like the OT. The temple is you.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-06-2010 10:00 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-20-2010 4:53 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 3394 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 67 of 122 (568976)
07-19-2010 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by riVeRraT
07-19-2010 10:07 AM


Hi riVeRrat

It's good to be back.

JUC:
And why not hang around? At least stay for a coffee. Why can he only appear for only a few seconds? Who makes these rules up?

riVeRrat:
Well His Son had some wine with us. When He left, He deposited the Holy Spirit. Obviously you can't see that.

OK, so maybe his son had a bit more stamina for the party than he did, but he still left. Is the earth not good enough for them? Do they find us boring?

Couldn't they at least visit for Christmas? We all have to put up with boring relatives once in a while.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2010 10:07 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2010 7:35 PM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 68 of 122 (569014)
07-19-2010 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
07-19-2010 11:03 AM


"Jumped Up Chimpanzee" writes:


OK, so maybe his son had a bit more stamina for the party than he did, but he still left. Is the earth not good enough for them? Do they find us boring?

Couldn't they at least visit for Christmas? We all have to put up with boring relatives once in a while.

Acts 1
1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

These bible verses pretty much answer your question, and sum up what I've been saying. God stopped showing up, and Jesus left, but deposited the Holy Spirit. Which is subjective, and cannot be proven. That's all there is. Which IMO isn't bad, relatively speaking.

I get your sarcasm, really I do, but beneath those comments are real concerns.

Just focus on what you believe in your heart. If you don't believe, then that is your path. God speaks to us in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. REAL Christians, like mother Theresa, act on that. Not every Christian is an idiot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 07-19-2010 11:03 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 07-20-2010 5:32 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 71 by Granny Magda, posted 07-20-2010 6:23 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 69 of 122 (569067)
07-20-2010 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by riVeRraT
07-19-2010 10:28 AM


I don't take the stories of the OT as fact.

Me neither. But then why refer to the events in Exodus if you don't think that they actually happened?

Well I don't get offended, you just made that one up.

You wrote:

Asking Christians why God doesn't prove His existence, is the biggest hypocritical comment for an atheist to say.

When people say that, they sound like pre-programmed robots from college.

To me, this sounded a little testy.

To this day, I see the Jews (hasidic jews) living in a weird way. They dress the part, and have all these dam rules, but then cheat and steal and lie to our government.

What, all of them?

Even if you don't believe in God, isn't loving people the RIGHT thing to do? How deep is that love? Can you forgive?

Yes. But I see no evidence for a supreme ruler of the universe who agrees with me on this.

It's about knowing that you do not need to go to a temple to be in God's presence like the OT. The temple is you.

Unfortunately, I also appear to be the contents of the Ark of the Covenant.

It would be jolly nice if the universe was ruled by a supreme and adorable King who was Love and Mercy and Wisdom and Truth all wrapped into one. It just doesn't look that way, does it?

If someone told you that the mayor of your city was all-powerful within the city limits and that his policies were perfect and could not be improved upon --- then when you'd finished laughing, you'd show him the local paper, wouldn't you?

Well, I'm in a similar position with regards the universe. Except for having no evidence that the "mayor" of the universe exists in the first place.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2010 10:28 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 08-07-2010 12:14 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 3394 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 70 of 122 (569070)
07-20-2010 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by riVeRraT
07-19-2010 7:35 PM


God speaks to us in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. REAL Christians, like mother Theresa, act on that. Not every Christian is an idiot.

There is not a shred of evidence that before the "Holy Spirit" was supposedly deposited on us, that humans were incapable of loving and caring for each other. It's the same as the story of Moses sharing the 10 Commandments. It just wouldn't have been possible for humans to have survived as a species up to that point if they hadn't already evolved and learnt how to co-exist.

I'm all in favour of more love and goodwill, but we must have already had the innate ability for this - and acted upon it - way before someone claimed the credit for giving it to us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2010 7:35 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 08-07-2010 12:19 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has responded

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2381
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(1)
Message 71 of 122 (569072)
07-20-2010 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by riVeRraT
07-19-2010 7:35 PM


Mother Teresa; Sacred Cow
Hi Rat,

God speaks to us in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. REAL Christians, like mother Theresa, act on that.

Okay, this has nothing in particular to do with the topic, but...

Mother Teresa was a bitch. Honestly.

Was it her Christianity that inspired Mother Teresa to accept money from lavishly corrupt Haitian dictator Baby Doc Duvalier? Money that he had swindled from the Haitian people? Was it her Christianity that inspired her to praise this monster?

Was it her Christianity that inspired her to eulogise poverty?

Mother Teresa writes:

I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people.

I would certainly agree that her world-denying religious persuasions influenced the way she ran her "hospices". Those places have been heavily criticised by medical professionals as being inadequately run, promoting suffering and, perhaps most shockingly for an alleged healthcare organisation, failing to distinguish between curable and terminal diseases, thus allowing patients to die where they could have been saved. I can see quite clearly how her denial-of-the-flesh and celebration of poverty would inform such horrors. But I wouldn't want to shout about it if I were you.

I recommend this article on the subject;

http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by riVeRraT, posted 07-19-2010 7:35 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Huntard, posted 07-20-2010 7:10 AM Granny Magda has acknowledged this reply
 Message 77 by riVeRraT, posted 08-07-2010 12:25 AM Granny Magda has responded

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 747 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 72 of 122 (569073)
07-20-2010 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Granny Magda
07-20-2010 6:23 AM


Re: Mother Teresa; Sacred Cow
It surprises me again and again how many people see her as an inspiration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Granny Magda, posted 07-20-2010 6:23 AM Granny Magda has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 73 of 122 (569692)
07-23-2010 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by ringo
07-14-2010 1:48 PM


Cleveland
I was referring to Basketball icon Lebron James.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ringo, posted 07-14-2010 1:48 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-25-2010 7:36 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 74 of 122 (570040)
07-25-2010 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
07-23-2010 9:27 AM


Re: Cleveland
God is, by definition, omnipresent, omnipotent, and infinitely wise.

This gives rise to a logical contradiction.

* If God was omnipresent, he would be in Cleveland.
* If God was omnipotent, he wouldn't have to do anything he didn't want to.
* And if God was infinitely wise, he wouldn't want to be in Cleveland.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 07-23-2010 9:27 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 75 of 122 (572672)
08-07-2010 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Dr Adequate
07-20-2010 4:53 AM


"Dr Adequate" writes:

Me neither. But then why refer to the events in Exodus if you don't think that they actually happened?

What specifically are you talking about?
There are good morals to be had in those stories if you stop taking shit our of context.

You wrote:

Asking Christians why God doesn't prove His existence, is the biggest hypocritical comment for an atheist to say.

When people say that, they sound like pre-programmed robots from college.

To me, this sounded a little testy.

No. What is testy is atheists asking for God to show Himself.

What, all of them?

I don't know. That would be racist of me if I thought that. But all the ones I have dealt with so far are cheating the government. I know for a fact.

Yes. But I see no evidence for a supreme ruler of the universe who agrees with me on this.

Well the fact that Jesus came and told us this was correct, and that He said the Holy Spirit will guide us in these beliefs, and that you feel it, is in fact evidence, however subjective it may be.

It would be jolly nice if the universe was ruled by a supreme and adorable King who was Love and Mercy and Wisdom and Truth all wrapped into one. It just doesn't look that way, does it?

Does a child's parents love them? do things done out of love to a child always seem like love to a child?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-20-2010 4:53 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020