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Author Topic:   Proven phenomena?
Theodoric
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Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 1 of 51 (567876)
07-02-2010 11:18 PM


It drives me nuts when a poster makes sweeping statements and assertions and then fails to back them up with evidence or even discussion.
One of our newbies has presented a list of purported phenomena that he claims
have been thoroughly proven to occur.
Unexplained Phenomena:
The Placebo Effect
The Sixth Sense
Near Death Experience
UFO's/USO's - Unidentified Flying/Submerged Objects
Dj Vu (Memory illusion)
The Big Bang (Origin of the Universe)
Singularity
Mammatus Clouds
Non-aqueous Rain
St Elmo’s Fire
Ghosts
Spontaneous Human Combustion
Unexplained Disappearances
Bermuda Triangle
The Hum
Psychic Phenomena (esp, remote viewing, telepathy, clairvoyance or telekinesis)
Naga Fireballs
Blue Jets and Red Sprites
Earthquake Lights
Relationship between brain and body
Capacity (psychic and spiritual)
Electronic Voice Phenomenon
The Sirius Mystery (as well as other ancient cosmology knowledge not visible from Earth)
Tunguska Explosion
Charles E. Peck (Chatsworth crash)
A couple of these were addressed in that thread, but I think they need further examination. I would like this to address any support for their existence and/or inexplicability. Unfortunately Practical prodigy may not be willing. Maybe no one else feels as Practical Prodigy does about all of these but I venture to guess that some share his beliefs about at least some of these.
I do not think these are unexplainable phenomena. Some I believe do not even exist. Therefore, I and the other skeptics here will be looking to be convinced that these phenomena exist and/or that there is no rational explanation for those that do exist.
Ideally Practical Prodigy would further develop why he feels the way he does about these "phenomena". In the absence of that maybe others will.
Edited by Admin, : Minor wordsmithing.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4 of 51 (567921)
07-03-2010 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
07-03-2010 8:43 AM


Re: What are the implications?
That is a very interesting discussion point, but I really want to discuss whether there are any truly unexplainable phenomena also.
Do you feel any of the items listed on the list are truly unexplainable phenomena?
As to your question. What kind of phenomena are you talking about, physical phenomena or do you include new age woo, like the Sirius thing he mentioned. Also, by not being able to explain, do you mean, no solid, confirmable testable evidence, or no rational hypothesis at all.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 6 of 51 (567923)
07-03-2010 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
07-03-2010 9:07 AM


Re: What are the implications?
Not all of the above relates to the Biblical. Example: Missionaries in churches and meetings I've attendended have spoken of experiences in the deep jungles of the islands, the contenent of Africa and South America involving what is considered evil phenomena; things like voodoo, wica, and the power of demonology etc. One example was back in the 1960s or so, missionaries commissioned to the deep jungles of New Guinea encountered a wicca tribal woman who controlled the people to the extent that the missionaries could not penetrate the people until the power of God prevailed after fasting and prayer by the missionaries.
Haiti is another example where a mix of Catholicism and voodoo has prevailed for centuries.
None of this is verifiable. All you are bringing is anecdotal evidence. I can tell you plenty of stories of magic and supernatural, but all they are are stories. Your stories are no different.
We are looking for verifiable phenomena, not anecdotes.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 12 of 51 (567943)
07-03-2010 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taz
07-03-2010 11:10 AM


Seems that most agree with me
I was really hoping some of the "believers" would join this thread and tell us why some of theses phenomena are "unexplained". It seems there either is no one that feels that way other than Practical Prodigy, or they are not confident in their beliefs.
Hopefully Practical Prodigy will join us and develop at least some of these so we can at least see what he was talking about and what he meant.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 17 of 51 (567959)
07-03-2010 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
07-03-2010 2:32 PM


Re: Seems that most agree with me
You did not address anything on the list. The things you brought up were just anecdotes and things no one else seems to have seen or believe but you. These things you mention do not qualify as phenomena, they qualify as stories nothing more.
Your "contribution" is no more of the continuation of the claim that unless you are a believer you cannot see it. Therefore, I would have to say it does not exist. except maybe in your head. If there is no evidence it isn't.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 21 of 51 (567969)
07-03-2010 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
07-03-2010 3:37 PM


Re: Seems that most agree with me
Aa I have stated previously, your anecdotes are not phenomena. They are religious stories that you have no evidence for.
Your stories are neither observed or observable nor impressive or extraordinary because they are stories. Provide some evidence other than hearsay and we may want to consider them as phenomena. Till then they are anecdote and story. You yourself can not attest to their validity.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 31 of 51 (568314)
07-05-2010 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Buzsaw
07-05-2010 7:56 AM


Re: Capacity (psychic and spiritual)
I was really hoping Practical Prodigy would participate, but after a flurry of initial posts, we haven't seen him in a few days. Maybe he was posting as a school assignment and hit his quota of posts.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 33 of 51 (568384)
07-05-2010 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
07-05-2010 12:35 PM


Re: Capacity (psychic and spiritual)
I agree with Admin Moose, The Bible and biblical prophecy are way off topic. Unless Prac. Prod wants to weigh in and say that was what he meant by "Capacity (psychic and spiritual)", but I think you want to just get your pet argument into the discussion and I don't want it derailed, by your unevidenced, unsubstantiated assertions. You tend to do in most other threads your participate in.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 35 of 51 (568452)
07-05-2010 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Buzsaw
07-05-2010 10:33 PM


Re: Capacity (psychic and spiritual)
Well now, f.y.i, the psyche has to do with the soul or spirit and prophecy is a spiritual gift.
Well since you have no evidence it is just a bunch of woo.
FYI, there is no soul and no prophecy

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 36 of 51 (568524)
07-06-2010 11:52 AM


I guess this thread is a bust
Practical Prodigy has posted to other threads since this thread started, but evidently doesn't want to participate here. Since he does not feel his list is worth supporting and no one else seems to feel as he does, I guess there is no sense discussing this any more.
I think it is the consensus of the members that have participated that this is not a list of proven unexplainable phenomena. Either the phenomena does not even exist, or there are valid scientific explanations or hypotheses for them.
Thanks to those of you that participated.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 38 of 51 (568585)
07-06-2010 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
07-06-2010 10:23 PM


Re: Why The Thread Went Bust
Are you incapable of reading what the moderators? The bible and bible prophecy are off topic. I and they did not want your pet unsubstantiated theories taking over the thread. No one wants to rehash this issue again with you.
Edited by Theodoric, : punctuation

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 42 of 51 (573974)
08-13-2010 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Huntard
08-13-2010 3:02 AM


I think there are some very strong theories of the mechanism behind ball lightning. There may very well be several "types" of ball lightning, so there may be more than one explanation. I do not feel it is a totally unexplained phenomena.
Ball lightning - Wikipedia

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 44 of 51 (574054)
08-13-2010 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Dexx
08-13-2010 1:57 AM


Well the believers in the supernatural are not willing to participate here in any meaningful sense. The original poster of the list I used in the OP ran away like a scared puppy when he was asked to provide any sort of backing for his claims.
The effect/event must have no strong scientific theory explaining it. Guesswork and theories with no evidence are allowable. In fact the effect/event could even blatantly contradict some known physical mechanism.
This completely changes the phenomena as described in the OP. This leads things very wide open to extreme subjectivity. The purpose of this thread is to show that there either hard scientific explanations for the phenomena or at least reasonable theories, ther than godidit

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 48 of 51 (574157)
08-14-2010 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
08-14-2010 11:33 AM


Dexx writes:
Are there other such things which are observable today but as yet unexplained?
Wimmin.
Winner winner, chicken dinner
Edited by Theodoric, : add quote

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