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Author Topic:   When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)
jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 201 of 702 (569904)
07-24-2010 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by Buzsaw
07-24-2010 4:25 PM


Re: The Designer Attributes
Buz writes:
Jar writes:
........ we still need to figure out how the designer did it.
The designer did it because the designer is both omnipotent and omni-scient, i.e. all/omni powerful and all/omni scient-ifically intelligent.
Why the designer did it is irrelevant and unimportant to understand HOW it happened.
Read what you quoted. Where in what I said do you find the question of "why"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2010 4:25 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2010 5:50 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 209 of 702 (569920)
07-24-2010 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Buzsaw
07-24-2010 5:50 PM


Re: The Designer Attributes
Buz writes:
Anglagard writes:
Why the designer did it is irrelevant and unimportant to understand HOW it happened.
Read what you quoted. Where in what I said do you find the question of "why"?
My answer answers both the hows and whyfors. Reread it thoughtfully.
A designer having all power and all knowledge is not limited in capability. How did he do it? That's already been answered previously in this thread. He assembled the elements from the earth or whatever realm he was working and via work created. Then he rested from his work. If you have enough energy, resources and knowledge you can do anything that you purpose to do.
He did all that all of the kings men and the kings horses, so to speak, have been unable to do; things like creating usful life. You people think that what our best scientists over the decades with all of their apparatus and intelligence have failed to do, i.e. create useful life, natural means did via alleged biogenesis and evolution, evolution being achieved by natural selection and random mutation, both void of an intelligent designer.
You are the people who appear to be exercising the greater faith, due to the enormity and progressive continuity of complex design effected over time which we observe.
Can't even get the attribution right for the quote Buz?
Read what you write because it is just utter nonsense.
How did he assemble "the elements from the earth or whatever realm he was working and via work created"?
Can't you see that tells us absolutely nothing; that it is no different then saying he made a mud figure and blew magic breath into it?
Come on Buz.
I'm sorry but your designer is just a pitiful joke, not even a very good one.
How he do it Buz?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Buzsaw, posted 07-24-2010 5:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 217 of 702 (569989)
07-24-2010 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by ICANT
07-24-2010 9:47 PM


Re: Logical Answer
ICANT writes:
When you guys find the answer you will find God the intelligent designer and creator of this universe.
Possibly, but even more important, we'll know how it was done.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by ICANT, posted 07-24-2010 9:47 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by subbie, posted 07-24-2010 10:00 PM jar has not replied
 Message 223 by ICANT, posted 07-24-2010 10:13 PM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 268 of 702 (570077)
07-25-2010 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by ICdesign
07-25-2010 11:45 AM


on Knowing
ICDESIGN writes:
None of your answers hold up to the common sense test.
Huntard writes:
It didn't. There was no intended purpose, there was what worked.
First of all how did "it" know anything was working without being able to think about it. Everything within the skeletal system has a purpose.
To say it doesn't is is being completely out of touch with reality.
It did not know it worked. The critter simply lived long enough to reproduce. That is all it takes.
ICDESIGN writes:
Huntard writes:
Because it's beneficial to have a skull that can house your brain.
What knew it was beneficial and how did it know?
Nothing knew it was beneficial. If the skull was not large enough to hold the brain the critter died.
ICDESIGN writes:
Huntard writes:
Not really no. It is what you expect to find if evolution was the cause, however.
No it isn't! I would expect a non-thinking dumb source like evolution to come up with a dumb design that makes no sense.
Evolution does not "come up with a design". If something works just good enough that the critter lives long enough to reproduce then it is successful.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by ICdesign, posted 07-25-2010 11:45 AM ICdesign has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 314 of 702 (570380)
07-27-2010 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by ICdesign
07-27-2010 6:59 AM


Re: best of luck to you
ICDESIGN writes:
All of you are betting your lives that Darwin is right. I am betting my life that the Holy Bible is right.....see you at the end of the day...
quote:
We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as one theory among others is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.
So YOU reject the will and gift of the Creator, limit God, commit an act of hubris, condemn your children to a life of ignorance.
And you think that when you stand in judgment before Jesus he will not send you off with the rest of the Goats?
I will pray for your enlightenment, you poor lost soul.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by ICdesign, posted 07-27-2010 6:59 AM ICdesign has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 320 of 702 (570459)
07-27-2010 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by ICANT
07-27-2010 2:09 PM


Re: Information
ICANT writes:
If you believe it got there by mutation and natural selection please explain how those created information.
Nothing in DNA got there by Natural Selection. Everything in DNA got there by chemical reactions.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by ICANT, posted 07-27-2010 2:09 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 337 of 702 (570491)
07-27-2010 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by ICANT
07-27-2010 3:36 PM


Re: When it comes to Information there is always a big question... how do you measure it?
ICANT writes:
If they can't understand it as you do the newspaper, how can they chose the correct amino acids to make the particular protein requested?
They don't chose to do anything.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by ICANT, posted 07-27-2010 3:36 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 343 of 702 (570500)
07-27-2010 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by ICANT
07-27-2010 4:02 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
I do have an observation that it was created by a program that was created by intelligent people writing a program and putting it on a machine that was created by intelligent people.
You do understand that considering the program that is a really stupid observation don't you?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by ICANT, posted 07-27-2010 4:02 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 351 of 702 (570514)
07-27-2010 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ICANT
07-27-2010 4:50 PM


Re: When it comes to Information there is always a big question... how do you measure it?
ICANT writes:
I have been told the ribosomes can not decide what amino acids to use to make the protein so who decides what information is sent to be used.
No one decides what information is sent to be used.
ICANT writes:
So does the DNA decide what information to send to the rebosomes to create 1 of these thousands or hundreds of thousands of proteins?
No. DNA does not decide to do anything.
ICANT writes:
Or is there a program that is imbeded in the DNA that runs like a program on a computer?
No, there is no program in DNA that runs like a program on a computer.
You're three for three it seems.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ICANT, posted 07-27-2010 4:50 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 368 of 702 (570543)
07-27-2010 6:20 PM


Peridotite
Pyroxene
Asbestos
Serpentine
How does the earth know which to make?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 389 of 702 (570956)
07-29-2010 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by ICANT
07-29-2010 2:02 PM


Re: When it comes to Information there is always a big question... how do you measure it?
ICANT writes:
So present the evidence of how DNA information can begin to exist?
You have been given this many, many times.
Information can begin to exist through errors and substitution filtered by natural selection.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 2:02 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 2:44 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 392 of 702 (570962)
07-29-2010 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by ICANT
07-29-2010 2:11 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
Hi Huntard,
Huntard writes:
So, let me get this straight, when we simulate gravity, that's not proof gravity requires intelligence, yet when we simulate evolutionary processes, that is proof that evolutionary processes require intelligence.
Then please get it straight.
My post you quoted said:
quote:
But it does prove that intelligent design is required for you to be able to simulate gravity or anything else on a computer monitor screen.
That "anything else" includes your evolutionary processes.
Living critters are not on a computer.
No intelligence required for living critters.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 2:11 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 3:23 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 401 of 702 (570976)
07-29-2010 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by ICANT
07-29-2010 2:44 PM


Re: When it comes to Information there is always a big question... how do you measure it?
ICANT writes:
If it is possible for information to begin to exist through errors and substitution filtered by natural selection that information could only come about by modification of existing information.
And?
ICANT writes:
My question is how did the DNA information of how to build the first life form begin to exist. All the information to build a life form is contained in its DNA.
The first life form likely did not use DNA.
And whatever was used by the first life form was built by just plain chemical reactions.
ICANT writes:
Which came first the life form containing the DNA information?
OR
The DNA information that produced the first life form?
Neither. Simple chemical reactions came before either of those.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 2:44 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 415 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 4:09 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 406 of 702 (570984)
07-29-2010 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by ICANT
07-29-2010 3:23 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
Hi jar,
jar writes:
No intelligence required for living critters.
Do human reproduction depend on information contained in the human DNA?
Please show where I mentioned information.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 3:23 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 4:16 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 422 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 413 of 702 (570994)
07-29-2010 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by ICANT
07-29-2010 3:49 PM


Re: were biolgical information comes from
ICANT writes:
If it was created by chaos I have no idea how the information could begin to exist and get in the life form.
Fortunately life did not come from chaos as you have been shown and the information came from simple chemical processes.
For life, no intelligent designer is needed.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by ICANT, posted 07-29-2010 3:49 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

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