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Author Topic:   how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1 of 108 (572007)
08-03-2010 9:31 AM


The topic title really covers the question; how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by dronestar, posted 08-03-2010 10:40 AM jar has replied
 Message 5 by onifre, posted 08-03-2010 11:31 AM jar has replied
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 08-03-2010 11:33 AM jar has replied
 Message 22 by Taq, posted 08-03-2010 6:31 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 2 of 108 (572022)
08-03-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
08-03-2010 9:31 AM


Because Israel is a human rights violator, Israel causes great INSTABILITY in the middle east/world.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Wikipedia
The raid on the boat flotilla in INTERNATIONAL waters and using phosphorus bombs on women and children are two examples:
MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest Videos
Video shows evidence of phosphorus bombs in Gaza | Gaza | The Guardian
Because Amerika often supports regimes (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, Iraq in the 80's, Turkey, Afghanistan, Indonesia, ect) with outrageous human rights records, it causes great instability and sometimes blowback (9/11) in the US/world.
Fox "News" viewers would disagree.
PS, I think RAZD had an excellent/elegant post somewhere on the forum about this issue. It was somewhat off-topic, so I am having difficulty finding it. If someone can find it, can you link it here?
Edited by dronester, : added RAZD comment

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 Message 1 by jar, posted 08-03-2010 9:31 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 08-03-2010 10:54 AM dronestar has replied
 Message 9 by Huntard, posted 08-03-2010 11:43 AM dronestar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 108 (572025)
08-03-2010 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by dronestar
08-03-2010 10:40 AM


Not reasons for destabilization, looking for support ...
I agree those could be seen as destabilizing but in this thread I hope Buz or any who might agree with him could post their supporting evidence that Israel stabilizes the Middle East.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 2 by dronestar, posted 08-03-2010 10:40 AM dronestar has replied

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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 4 of 108 (572026)
08-03-2010 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
08-03-2010 10:54 AM


Re: Not reasons for destabilization, looking for support ...
Actually, people like Buzz, in their upside-down, hate-filled, religion-is-grand world, would ass-backwardly use my atrocities-against-children example as evidence FOR Israel somehow stabilizing the middle east.
buzz writes:
When will we ever watch Israel and learn from them...
Smelling The Coffee: 2010; Message 70 of 270 (541724)
IMO, people with dimunitive-craniums who voted for Bush Jr. TWICE, secretly and outwardly loved the catastrophies/atrocities Bush Jr. caused in the world.
Edited by dronester, : No reason given.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Made reference a clickable link.

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 5 of 108 (572027)
08-03-2010 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
08-03-2010 9:31 AM


how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel?
Well if you were the US and you needed a strong position in the Middle East, with nuclear capability, wouldn't that piece of property that Israel sits on look great?
They're a menacing threat to any Middle East nation because of their US backing and armament.
- Oni

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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 6 of 108 (572028)
08-03-2010 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
08-03-2010 9:31 AM


And your solution...
And your solution to the problem is what?
Another holocaust?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 108 (572029)
08-03-2010 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by onifre
08-03-2010 11:31 AM


How does that piece property add stability? If what was needed was a nuclear threat in the area, how does a fixed base target like Israel afford greater stability than an offshore threat like a ballistic sub?
Is a menacing threat to all other middle east nations a stabilizing force?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by onifre, posted 08-03-2010 11:31 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 108 (572030)
08-03-2010 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
08-03-2010 11:33 AM


Re: And your solution...
What does that have to do with the question?
How exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East?
Why do we need Israel?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 08-05-2010 9:14 AM jar has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 9 of 108 (572031)
08-03-2010 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by dronestar
08-03-2010 10:40 AM


Of course, when a Palestinian blows up a bus, he makes sure there aren't any women and children in it first, just soldiers.
Yes, Israel did some pretty bad stuff, but the Palestinians aren't a happy happy bunch either.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 10 of 108 (572033)
08-03-2010 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by onifre
08-03-2010 11:31 AM


Iraqi lesson learned
Hey Oni,
Your post is good, but I think it important to show where US/Israel's menacing leads . . .
Although Iran is also a human rights violator, I completely understand them and every other country wanting nuclear weapon deterents. Afterall, when the US lied about Iraqi WMD and then illegally and immorally invaded, it concretely showed smaller countries their need for nuclear weapon deterents. It would be dumb/suicidal for middle east countries NOT to get nuclear weapons.
Amerika's and Israel's actions are leading the world to more terrorism and catastrophic risks. Again, you would have to be a Fox "News" viewer to NOT get this.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 108 (572034)
08-03-2010 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by dronestar
08-03-2010 11:45 AM


Re: Iraqi lesson learned
dronestar writes:
Your post is good, but I think it important to show where US/Israel's menacing leads . . .
Except that is NOT the topic of this thread.
This thread is meant to cover only how Israel stabilizes the Middle East and why we need Israel.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 10 by dronestar, posted 08-03-2010 11:45 AM dronestar has not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 12 of 108 (572035)
08-03-2010 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Huntard
08-03-2010 11:43 AM


replay?
C'mon Huntard, I thought you became enlightened about all this stuff.
Yes, the Muslem terrorists do target women and children and it is wrong. But . . .
What side (Israel or Palestine) CONTROLS movement, food, employment, water, health, security, human rights, to the point of life or death?
BTW, I read the Dutch are removing Afghan troups due to public pressure. Hooray for the Dutch!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Huntard, posted 08-03-2010 11:43 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Huntard, posted 08-03-2010 12:04 PM dronestar has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 13 of 108 (572039)
08-03-2010 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by dronestar
08-03-2010 11:53 AM


Re: replay?
dronester writes:
C'mon Huntard, I thought you became enlightened about all this stuff.
Oh, I'd like to consider myself "enlightened" , as you put it.
Yes, the Muslem terrorists do target women and children and it is wrong. But . . .
What side (Israel or Palestine) CONTROLS movement, food, employment, water, health, security, human rights, to the point of life or death?
Yes, like I said, Israel does some pretty bad stuff, I just wanted to point out that it's not so easy as to point the finger to one party. Both are in the wrong here, maybe one is more wrong than the other, but it takes two to tango.
BTW, I read the Dutch are removing Afghan troups due to public pressure. Hooray for the Dutch!!!
That's not the case however. The reason we're removing from Afghanistan, is because one party of our then coalition government stepped out of the government because they didn't feel comfortable about making a decision to prolong our stay a bit. This meant no official stance could be taken by our government on the issue one way or another (for some reason they're fucking slow with writing out new elections here), and this led to an adherence to a previously made deal that we would depart on 01-08-10. Yes, there was a lot of pressure from the populace, but that was not the reason we went home, it was not a decision made, it was a bureaucratic thing. I'll see how this plays out for the local populace. But giving your dislike of America, you might be interested to know, that due to our leaving, the people we looked over are now in the hands of the Americans and Australians.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 35 by dronestar, posted 08-04-2010 9:03 AM Huntard has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 14 of 108 (572043)
08-03-2010 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Huntard
08-03-2010 12:04 PM


Re: replay?
You didn't answer my question:
What side (Israel or Palestine) CONTROLS movement, food, employment, water, health, security, human rights, to the point of life or death?
(and, thanks for the enlightenment about the Dutch removing troops. I obviously haven't read the inside scoop.)
huntard writes:
But giving your dislike of America, you might be interested to know, that due to our leaving, the people we looked over are now in the hands of the Americans and Australians.
Correction, I have a strong dislike for SPECIFIC American policies. The Afghans prefer NOT to be in any foreigner hands. It's most important what the Afghan people want.
We are off-topic, sorry Jar.
Edited by dronester, : No reason given.

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 15 of 108 (572063)
08-03-2010 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
08-03-2010 11:36 AM


How does that piece property add stability?
Men with big guns own it. That property, plus Iraq and Afghanistan make for a great military strong hold, or at least presence, in the Middle E.
If what was needed was a nuclear threat in the area, how does a fixed base target like Israel afford greater stability than an offshore threat like a ballistic sub?
IMO, because it is recognized as a nation versus just an offshore ballistic sub, which is also in that area too.
Is a menacing threat to all other middle east nations a stabilizing force?
It has been so far, sans Palestine.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 08-03-2010 11:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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