EvC Forum: God created evolution

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Topic: God created evolution

New Cat's Eye

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Message 107 of 118 (606976)
03-01-2011 10:44 AM

Reply to: Message 105 by Tram law
02-28-2011 7:08 PM

Saying that God created evolutions is completely antithetical to creationism and quite possibly sophistry to boot.

I don't think so.

Because God creates everything every step of the way out of thin air in the Bible.

Except for Adam, which he uses clay. And then Eve with which he uses a part of Adam's rib.

But Evolution does not create things out of thin air like creationism does.

In Genesis 1, the earth brings forth the animals.

quote:
Gen1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so

In Genesis 2, God froms the animals out of the ground.

quote:
Gen2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

They are not created out of thin air.

But Evolution does not create things out of thin air like creationism does.

If God can create anything he needs out of thin air he doesn't need Evolution.

I wouldn't say he needed it, per se, but we can tell that it did, in fact, happen that way.

If God is omnipotent he does not need Evolution.

Or anything at all. But alas, here we are surrounded by animals that have evolved.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 105 by Tram law, posted 02-28-2011 7:08 PM		Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 108 by Tram law, posted 03-01-2011 2:28 PM		New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 109 of 118 (607041)
03-01-2011 2:57 PM

Reply to: Message 108 by Tram law
03-01-2011 2:28 PM

In which Bible? In KJV he does not form animals out of the ground.

Those quotes were from the KJV

But yes, trying to mesh two different things into one to appease people is sophistry.

Since I haven't done that, you haven't shown any sophism on my part.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 108 by Tram law, posted 03-01-2011 2:28 PM		Tram law has replied

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	Message 110 by Tram law, posted 03-02-2011 11:40 AM		New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 111 of 118 (607192)
03-02-2011 12:55 PM

Reply to: Message 110 by Tram law
03-02-2011 11:40 AM

However, that is still not evolution.

Not exactly, no. But forming animals from the earth and having them bring forth from thier kind is a lot closer to evolution than the poofing out of thin air that you were trying to have it be.

So yes, it is indeed sophistry to mesh the two subjects, because God is still creating them every single step of the way.

Its a lot less of a sophistication than you are trying to make it. And god is not creating them every step of the way if they bring forth from their own kind.

But then again, it's a common Christian tactic to put a Christian spin on things in order to take credit for it, especially if something is very popular and can not be beaten down by Christianity.

And its a common anti-christian tactic to try to make it look worse than it actually is. But that's neither here nor there, is it?

For it to be evolution, the Bible has to explicitly say it's evolution. Otherwise, it's an interpretation of ambiguous language that can be interpreted any way a person wants to.

Well hold on... if I can interpret it any way I want then it doesn't have to explicitly say it's evolution

But anyways, its not so much the meshing of the Bible with evolution so that the creation story supports evolution as it is realizing that the creation story doesn't necessarily contradict an evolutionary process. I don't see that as sophistry.

The Bible does not support Evolution, and to say it is evolution is sophistry.

I'll need to see the actual supposed sophism, of arguing the Bible is saying evolution, to know what you're talking about here and if I agree with you.

Are you referring to something specific or just sayin'?

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	Message 110 by Tram law, posted 03-02-2011 11:40 AM		Tram law has not replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 114 of 118 (607514)
03-04-2011 10:34 AM

Reply to: Message 113 by Tram law
03-04-2011 10:15 AM

The sophism is the meshing of the two subjects into one in order to purposefully confuse the matter in order to appease a broad populace.

Do you have an example?

And that the specific claim is that "the Bible states that God created Evolution to create life and that caused the earth to being forth the animals".

I haven't seen that.

And the Bible does not explicitly or specifically say such a thing. It is actually fairly ambiguous on the matter in that it does not explicitly describe the mechanism on which God uses to create life. Any conclusion is an interpretation that really can not be verified.

It is all based on personal interpretation. And all personal interpretation is based on one's own prejudices and interests.

For instance, we could claim that God is simply converting energy into matter so that he can cause the earth to bring forth the Animals. And therefore disproves the theory of evolution.

And there are many more ways to interpret the passages. There is an old saying around my neck of the woods. You get a hundred different people and a hundred different people will give a hundred different interpretations of the scripture, and each and every single one of the will think that they and only they can be right and nobody else can be right.

So, you're assuming a sophistic argument has been made so that you can call it sophistic?

This message is a reply to:
	Message 113 by Tram law, posted 03-04-2011 10:15 AM		Tram law has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 115 by Tram law, posted 03-04-2011 10:48 AM		New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 116 of 118 (607528)
03-04-2011 11:59 AM

Reply to: Message 115 by Tram law
03-04-2011 10:48 AM

I don't debate links, if you can quote some examples of sophistry in there, I'll disuss it with you.

The thread title is not the argument, if you can quote some sophistry in the OP, or this thread, then I will discuss them with you.

I have not seen any example of sophistry except for the arguments you made up that look to be designed to be sophisticated in the first place. You seem to be suggesting that any argumetn that allows for both a creation and an evolution must be a sophism and I disagree.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 115 by Tram law, posted 03-04-2011 10:48 AM		Tram law has not replied

New Cat's Eye

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Message 118 of 118 (607558)
03-04-2011 2:29 PM

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