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Author Topic:   The meaning of "meaning"
Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 74 of 152 (574610)
08-16-2010 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Dawn Bertot
08-16-2010 8:56 PM


Re: Purpose
Thats why its faulty. One can easily and lgically demonstrate the existence of God
Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy! Finally, after all these miserable failures!!!!!
Let's see it! I really would like to see this!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-16-2010 8:56 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-16-2010 9:42 PM Woodsy has not replied
 Message 77 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-16-2010 9:44 PM Woodsy has replied

Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 85 of 152 (574653)
08-17-2010 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Dawn Bertot
08-16-2010 9:44 PM


Re: Purpose
Your excitability is premature because its preceeded by an assumed and possibly false presuposition. Arent you assuming they were failured attempts. Give me an example of one of these failed attempts in argument form and lest see if its a failure, before I rehash old stuff
Are you ducking my request?
I have never seen an argument for God that was not merely childish: ontological argument, cosmological argument etc. These were refuted long, long ago.
Are you telling me you have nothing new, but only the usual tired old nonsense?
I'm disappointed! Let's see some meat here!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-16-2010 9:44 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-17-2010 6:22 PM Woodsy has replied

Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 95 of 152 (574785)
08-17-2010 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Dawn Bertot
08-17-2010 6:22 PM


Re: Purpose
I think anyone that knows me here knows I do not dodge answering questions, but so I dont rehash old stuff you think is failed, go ahead and present and example of a failed attempt since you ASSUME they are all failures
i dont think you understand the difference in failure and absolute proof. lets see
I assume nothing. What I meant to convey is that the so-called proofs of god(s)'s existence that I have encountered so far have all been contemptible. I am hoping you will provide something I have not seen before. Perhaps you would like to provide a list I can choose from.
Absolute proof is only available in mathematics.
If you insist on an example, let`s try Anselm`s ontological proof. That is just silly wordplay and category error.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-17-2010 6:22 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-18-2010 10:45 AM Woodsy has replied

Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 97 of 152 (574911)
08-18-2010 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dawn Bertot
08-18-2010 10:45 AM


Re: Purpose
But I am trying to do that very thing
The meaning of meaning. Ill try it another way to see if you get the point I am striving for in an attempt to show you they are not contemptible, simply that you may not understand the proper way to proceed in establishing truths or fact
Rules of evidence. Do you believe in evolution, do you believe it actually happened, Yes or No?
Now watch. When and until you do demonstrate from your own perspective why you believe these "attempts" are contemptible then, you will demonstrate two things.
1. That your method for deciding what is factual and believeable may be different than mine. You may have a whole set of rules that apply to others but not yourself
2. Unless you can demonstrate why you should be able to firmly believe in something as a fact, without ever having seen it happen, you may need to revaluate whether these attempts are actually contimptible failures
So, is evolution true and demonstratable as a fact?
More dodging.
I was under the impression that you had claimed to have proof of the existence of god(s) and asked you to provide it, preferably something not already refuted a thousand times over. Evolution is not on the table.
The proofs I have seen failed by either flawed reasoning or false matters of fact, or both. Either is sufficient to invalidate any argument.
I am not impressed by your introduction of the idiotic "if you didn't see it happen, you can't know anything about it" dodge. If your house is burgled, do you call in the police?
Let's see some meat here!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-18-2010 10:45 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-20-2010 11:48 AM Woodsy has replied

Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 104 of 152 (575551)
08-20-2010 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Dawn Bertot
08-20-2010 11:48 AM


Re: Purpose
I am more than willing to demonstrate the existence of God and meaning as soon as we see if we are on the same rule sheet for what is actually evidential and considered factual
Still dodging, I see. Have you been spending too much time with the bumper cars at the carnival?
Come on, let's see your proofs. Then we can discuss whether they hold water and whether we can agree on any evidence you advance.
Evolution is irrelevant to this discussion.
Ill take this as an indirect somewhat evasive way of you indicating that it is possible to know something without having actually seen it happen. Thus we have now removed the so-called FAILURES up to distinct possibilities
Mere gibberish! Let's see something specific!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-20-2010 11:48 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-23-2010 8:59 PM Woodsy has replied

Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 127 of 152 (576438)
08-24-2010 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Dawn Bertot
08-23-2010 8:59 PM


Re: Purpose
Ah Im sure you want it to be irrelevant, but unless you can show me evolution first hand, you have no business proclaiming it a fact, THAT IS IF WE FOLLOW YOUR RULES
The conversation you and I are having concerns your assertion that you have proofs of the existance of god(s).
I have asked you to show me these proofs, but you have persistantly failed to do so.
You have instead presented us with ungrammatical irrelevencies and word salad.
It is time for you to put up or shut up. If you do not present your proofs, clearly stated, I must conclude that you have no such proofs and were lieing when you claimed to have them.
I realize that that is standard operating procedure among the religious, but I was hoping for better from you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-23-2010 8:59 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-25-2010 2:16 AM Woodsy has not replied

Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3400 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 138 of 152 (576695)
08-25-2010 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Dawn Bertot
08-25-2010 3:15 AM


Re: Purpose
Again what concievable argument could be advanced to remove obvious and inticate design in the physical world, other than, I didnt see God make it and i dont like the argument
This is nonsense, as we know very well several instances in which simple systems produce the mere appearance of design.
Some examples: the intricacies of snowflakes arise from their chemistry, very simple equations produce the amazing complexities of fractal shapes, evolution running on more than one substrate (computers, electronic circuits, biology) can produce adaptation.
Indeed, just the fact that the universe has properties leads to a false appearance of design. No superstition is required to understand what we see around us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-25-2010 3:15 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-27-2010 1:07 AM Woodsy has not replied

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