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Author Topic:   The meaning of "meaning"
sac51495
Member (Idle past 4740 days)
Posts: 176
From: Atlanta, GA, United States
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 53 of 152 (573519)
08-11-2010 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
08-06-2010 2:51 PM


Purpose
Jumped Up Chimpanzee,
I saw your In what way does a creator provide a "meaning" to life thread in the Proposed Topics forum, and decided that I'd get the ball rolling here.
I'd just like to ask what this "meaning" is for theists.
Seeing as how the thread is discussing the meaning of "meaning", we need to first examine the definition of "meaning": "the end, purpose, or significance of something."
First, we need to define what entities are necessary to bring about a universe in which there is an end, purpose, or significance...In order for anything (e.g., a work of art, an automobile, a democracy...anything) to have a purpose, it must necessarily invoke the existence of a perpetrator (someone, or something to set it in motion, i.e., to get the ball rollin'), because a prerequisite for a purpose is a cause. For example, if you examine any particular thing in this universe, if that thing has a specific purpose (e.g., to bring pleasure to the optical senses of people, to transport people from here to there, to establish justice), it will always have someone's actions, or something's actions, as the cause: for where there lies a purpose, there must be a cause. This does not however mean that for everything for which there is a cause, there is also a purpose; just that everything which has a purpose, necessarily has a cause...
So another question is this: can a "non-life cause" provide a purpose? That is, can something which has no life provide a purpose? Absolutely not. Although an explosion (for example. And I am, by the way, not specifically referring to the Big Bang) certainly has a cause (perhaps the accidental mixing of chemicals), it can never provide a purpose. There is never a purpose for the accidental reactions of chemicals in which there is no life.
So we conclude that for a purpose to arise, there must be at the least a non-accidental cause. And in order for a cause to be non-accidental, that cause must have the ability to make choices about what it will or will not do. And in order for something to make choices, it must be (at the least) life...
So what question must we now ask? We must ask what the purpose of life is. And, as I've already shown, for something to have a purpose, it must have a cause, and in order for a cause to have the ability to provide a purpose, it must have life. But then one must ask: what is the purpose of that life which provided the purpose in the first place?...
Well let me first answer the question that you asked in the first place: the purpose of the universe is to bring glory to God as its Creator, through the power of His Word; and as humans, our purpose is to bring glory to God:
quote:
"Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." (I Cor. 10:31);
"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." (Rom. 8:28);
"But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." (Exodus 9:16).
So what is God's purpose? Remember that the definition of "meaning" was "the end, purpose, or significance of something". Focusing in on the part that says "the end", we conclude that for something to have a purpose, it must be set out for a particular end, or a "concluding purpose". But God is eternal:
quote:
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.. We need not define a particular end for God, because He is the Beginning, and He is the end.

quote:
"Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
'For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?'
'Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?'
For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen." (Romans 11:33-36).
Edited by sac51495, : No reason given.
Edited by sac51495, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 08-06-2010 2:51 PM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has not replied

Replies to this message:
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sac51495
Member (Idle past 4740 days)
Posts: 176
From: Atlanta, GA, United States
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 82 of 152 (574634)
08-17-2010 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by jar
08-14-2010 12:38 PM


Re: What is the meaning of whatever EMA is saying?
jar,
For example the description of god in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the description of god in Genesis 2&3.
Consider this (and please do consider it): is a clay vessel defined by its potter, that is, is the vessel's shape and form determined by the potter? If so, can the potter define the vessel in such a way that the vessel (which the potter defined) can redefine the potter himself?...Answer these questions honestly, and then move on down....
...
...
...
...
...
Are you not a creation of God: shaped, formed, and defined by His power, and His will? Can we then even hope to attempt to redefine God? Is not the endeavor hopeless? Will we then think that our human reasoning (which is a creation of God, NOT a creator of God) is powerful enough to define the very God who created us?
How does this relate to the topic? If God is nothing more than a creation of man, God cannot be the Creator of man. If God is not the Creator of man, then what is? Ultimately, it must be chance that "created" us. And, by definition, if chance created us, there can be no purpose, meaning, or significance to life (think about it for a little bit...consider...can chance bring a purpose? What are the characteristics of a purpose? Do these characteristics include origins-of-chance?...).
But do you believe that God created us? If so, you must also believe that God defines man, not vice versa. You either believe that man defines God, or that God defines man. If God created man, then He gets to define man, and man cannot define God, that is, God's nature is not decided by our subjective experiences.
Or will you respond by saying that God is merely a myth, and that man creates God? If so, ask yourself: if God has not defined the universe, what has, if anything? If nothing has defined the universe, then what purpose can their be?...
Or, if you subscribe to the reality defined by the Bible, you will believe that: "by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence." (Col. 1:16-18)..."that in all things He may have the preeminence"...do you believe this, or will you throw it down the trash-can as myth, merely because you think that your mind is superior to God's, or because you don't really think God exists? Christ must have the preeminence, because in Him all things consist...
Once again...consider...Is God defined by man, or is man defined by God?
Edited by sac51495, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 08-14-2010 12:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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