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Author
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Topic: Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 28 of 549 (572612)
08-06-2010 7:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by slevesque
08-06-2010 7:23 PM
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other dimensions
slevesque writes: We cannot do science in those other universes. Yet. But what do you call the science being done in cosmology?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by slevesque, posted 08-06-2010 7:23 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 30 of 549 (572622)
08-06-2010 8:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by slevesque
08-06-2010 8:13 PM
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Re: other dimensions
But there are experiments going on now that will test many of the theories about other dimensions or even universes. So how is that not science?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by slevesque, posted 08-06-2010 8:13 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 33 of 549 (572628)
08-06-2010 9:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
08-06-2010 9:08 PM
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Re: Multiverse Problems
Buz writes: As for mutiverses, they might begin with what to do with alleged no outside of and no before space and time/tme relative to our universe. I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 9:08 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 9:58 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 35 of 549 (572637)
08-06-2010 9:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by slevesque
08-06-2010 9:13 PM
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Re: other dimensions
Let me point you to our cosmologists, and also to the folk at the LHC. IIRC one will look at the other particles when a black hole is created. They are looking for some of the particles that theory says should exist if some of the theories are correct.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by slevesque, posted 08-06-2010 9:13 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 37 of 549 (572645)
08-06-2010 9:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by slevesque
08-06-2010 9:30 PM
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Re: other dimensions
Why not? If the mathematical construct says that we should see certain things, and if those predicted things are then seen, does it not support the mathematical construct? AbE:
quote:
Because of the defective joints and some mysteriously underperforming magnets, it will still be three years at least before CERN’s collider runs at or near full strength. According to theoretical models, that would stretch out the time it should take to achieve the collider’s main goals, like producing the Higgs boson and testing more exotic ideas like extra dimensions.
From this article Edited by jar, : add link and quote
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by slevesque, posted 08-06-2010 9:30 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 39 of 549 (572649)
08-06-2010 10:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
08-06-2010 9:58 PM
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Re: Multiverse Problems
Still makes no sense Buz. There is no reason to think our universe is expanding into anything.
Buz writes: There's no possible model for alleged multiverses nor does the possibility make any sense. So you assert.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2010 9:58 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 56 of 549 (572842)
08-07-2010 9:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 53 by Buzsaw
08-07-2010 9:30 PM
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other universes
Buz writes: Because it appears that the math, which, as I understand what was alleged, is supportive to the multiple universe hypothesis which BB science ascribes to. Not simply ascribe Buz. Learn meanings and terms. The evidence points to the existence of other dimensions and perhaps universes. BUT, science goes one step further. Over the next five years or so Science will be looking for the particles that are predicted by the math. That is the difference. Science actually supplies evidence to support such things and tests to see if there is support. In fact, my computers help in that search by crunching numbers from the experiments being run at the Large Hadron Collider.
Buz writes: The problem still remains that more universes imply an outside of our universe and that there is a between universes. Imo, applying unknown laws of physics to explain that problem is even more absurd than explaining the supernatural hypothesis. the problem is that unlike the observations from the Large Hadron Collider, you have yet to present any math, and observations, any evidence for the super-natural.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by Buzsaw, posted 08-07-2010 9:30 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 59 of 549 (572889)
08-08-2010 11:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 58 by Straggler
08-08-2010 11:03 AM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: How about you jar. Do you consider the supernatural to be evidenced in any way? You have previously cited the existence of myths and stories to be indicative of the actual existence of the supernatural. Not true, I have said that existence of myths and stories to can be evidence that can be used to judge the likelihood or unlikelihood of some God(s) or god(s) and as a basis for someones belief in that(those) God(s) or god(s). When there is evidence, for example in stories or fables, those accounts are evidence and a reasonable, rational decision may be made by an individual based on that evidence related to what that individual believes.
Straggler writes: Why is the actual existence of something supernatural the best explanation (or even an explanation that should be given any credence at all) for the recorded fact of human belief in such things? We are talking about beliefs Straggler, not the actual critter(s). What does the actual existence of some critter have to do with belief in such a critter?
Straggler writes: What doe the evidence suggest regarding the source of supernatural myths and stories? Myths and Stories are human creations. Edited by jar, : to ---> can
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by Straggler, posted 08-08-2010 11:03 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 61 of 549 (572920)
08-08-2010 4:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Straggler
08-08-2010 4:02 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: No. In this thread we are talking about the "actual critter(s)". Specifically as explanations for known phenomenon. Known phenomenon such as human myths and stories. Whatever, enjoy your conversation then.
Straggler writes: It is you who seems to be citing myths and stories as evidence of the the actual existence of the supernatural. Utter nonsense. I do not think I have ever done that or do that.
Straggler writes: Is that evidence in the gods themselves? Or simply belief? Please be explicit. Too funny again. I'm sorry, did you forget so soon how I use the terms God and god?
Straggler writes: Obviously. But are they indicative of the actual existence of the supernatural? That is the question here. Another nonsense question. The super natural, if it exists, exists regardless of any evidence that it does not exist.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Straggler, posted 08-08-2010 4:02 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 63 of 549 (572978)
08-09-2010 9:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Straggler
08-09-2010 8:32 AM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Sraggler writes: jar writes: Straggler writes: Is that evidence in the gods themselves? Or simply belief? Please be explicit Too funny again. I'm sorry, did you forget so soon how I use the terms God and god? You used them like this: I consider all Gods and gods to be evidenced. The evidence is the stories themselves. Message 329 Now it seems a little hypocritical for you to be berating Buz for suggesting that the origins of the universe require a supernatural explanation when you yourself are advocating the supernatural as a viable explanation for the existence of certain myths and stories. What is the difference? Again, you misrepresent what I have said. I have NEVER said that the supernatural was an explanation of anything. God(s) and god(s) are creations of humans. They may or may not reflect some actual critter but they are simply caricatures, human attempts to describe something else at best. The evidence of those Gods or gods are the stories and those stories can be used to make a reasoned, logical estimation of how likely or unlikely such a critter might be and if by some chance, one of those caricatures turned out to actually reflect a real critter, what position one should take in regard to that critter.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Straggler, posted 08-09-2010 8:32 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 65 of 549 (573009)
08-09-2010 1:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by Straggler
08-09-2010 12:34 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Then go back and find where I defined how I use the terms GOD, God and god.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by Straggler, posted 08-09-2010 12:34 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 67 of 549 (573050)
08-09-2010 3:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Straggler
08-09-2010 2:51 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
I have told you, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times. God(s) and god(s) are the creation of human minds and may or may not reflect any actual critter.
Straggler writes: Why? Why are you telling me to look-up your personal definitions when you could just explicitly tell us whether or not you consider there to be a causal relationship between the existence of the supernatural and myths and stories pertaining to such? Because I cannot do more than I have. I simply don't know how to make my position much clearer.
Sraggler writes: How is Buz's (much derided) advocacy of the supernatural in relation to the origin of the universe any different to your advocacy of the supernatural with regard to myths and stories? I for one do not deride the idea that the super-natural is the origin of the Universe, and in fact I have told you that I believe GOD is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. I deride Buz's explanation of how it happened because it does not stand up to examination. Let me try yet again. GOD is I believe, that which created all that is, seen and unseen. It is a personal belief. It is not reasonable, rational or logical. But it is what I believe. God(s) and god(s) are human creations. They may or may not be representations or caricatures of something that actually exists, perhaps even of GOD. God(s) and god(s) may be examined reasonably and logically, rationally based on the information contained in the stories, fables, tales. Those stories, fables, tales are evidence of the beliefs of the authors, editors, redactors and may or may not reflect reality. When the story says that an individual met a god, I need to make a judgment about how likely I think that tale is. It is a personal judgment made on a case by case basis. The tales of God(s) and god(s) can also be used to make decisions about how one should behave if the God(s) or god(s) happen to turn out to be true. I hope that helps you.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Straggler, posted 08-09-2010 2:51 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 69 of 549 (573073)
08-09-2010 4:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 68 by Straggler
08-09-2010 3:43 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: How is that conclusion more evidenced than Buz's conclusion? Do the stories exist?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by Straggler, posted 08-09-2010 3:43 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 82 of 549 (573171)
08-10-2010 9:04 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Straggler
08-10-2010 6:00 AM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: Obviously both the universe, and the stories you are citing as evidence of the supernatural, both exist. But so what? In neither case do we need to resort to invoking the supernatural as a cause of these phenomenon. Okay, so you agree that the stories exist. Now do you remember the definition I used for God(s) and god(s)? Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 6:00 AM | | Straggler has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 91 of 549 (573211)
08-10-2010 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 89 by Straggler
08-10-2010 12:20 PM
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Re: The Supernatural Explanation For Myths and Stories
Straggler writes: Do you consider the supernatural to be evidenced in any way? Or not? No and I have never claimed that it was. If you will walk along with me perhaps I can try to explain my position.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by Straggler, posted 08-10-2010 12:20 PM | | Straggler has replied |
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