Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 48 (9214 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: Cifa.ac
Post Volume: Total: 920,076 Year: 398/6,935 Month: 398/275 Week: 115/159 Day: 26/31 Hour: 1/0


EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Castle Doctrine

Summations Only

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Castle Doctrine
subbie
Member (Idle past 1546 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 445 of 453 (656687)
03-21-2012 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 420 by Dr Adequate
03-20-2012 4:36 PM


Re: Trayvon Martin
We have laws that say that you can murder people scot-free so long (a) they are in your vicinity (b) you subsequently say that you felt threatened or that you suspected that they were going to commit a crime. And that's it. All you need do is testify, truly or falsely, about your own mental state, and so long as you say you felt this or you thought that, you walk.
I haven't read the follow up remarks so maybe this has already been covered. But I wanted to make this point before the thread went into summation.
You are wrong. This is not all that is required for a legitimate self defense claim. You must also show that your belief that you were being threatened was objectively reasonable. Otherwise, it would be simplicity itself to avoid any murder charge. Since we know that people are convicted of murder every day, obviously it's not that easy to beat.
Although I haven't looked in depth at the Martin case, the question is going to come down to whether what Zimmerman knew at the time was enough to justify a reasonable belief that his life was in danger. I don't know what he claims to have known, so I can't evaluate the merits. But it's quite impossible to accurately evaluate any claim unless you begin with the correct standard. The standard you describe is simply not accurate.
{AbE}
Having read the rest of the comments, I note that Catholic Scientist provided what is apparently the actual text of the law. You will note that it talks about "reasonable fear." Simply stating you were afraid is not enough if your fear is not reasonable. In the law, when the word "reasonable" is used, overwhelmingly what is meant is objectively using a reasonable person standard.
Zimmerman could testify on a stack of bibles that he was afraid. But if the objective facts that he describes are not sufficient to provide a reasonable basis for that fear, a jury could very easily believe that he was actually afraid but still convict him.
Edited by subbie, : As noted

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-20-2012 4:36 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-21-2012 2:40 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2025