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Author Topic:   The evolution of an atheist.
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 64 of 280 (574811)
08-17-2010 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by GDR
08-16-2010 11:14 AM


Frankly, I can see no reasonable explanation for the Christian church to grow out of that era if Jesus wasn't resurrected. His ministry was a mere 3 years before he was executed by the Romans. He preached an unpopular message and his followers were almost exclusively lower class and illiterate. Yet somehow out of that has come Christianity.
It's true that the Jews weren't evangelistic with their beliefs except among fellow Jews, but there were the religions of the Greeks and Romans that were, in the sense that they had the support of those in power and were even in a position to impose their religion on others. That's where the power was.
The Roman Empire was a positive hotbed of alternative religions. For starters, the Romans as a matter of policy did not impose their pantheon on their subject peoples, so there were plenty of religions to choose from.
In addition, the Romans and Greeks themselves converted to other religions. They would adopt the Syrian rites, for example, or they would Judaize --- these latter were the so-called "god-fearers", who would give us the name "Timothy". The centurion Cornelius in Acts 10 is an example of such a man, as presumably was St Timothy prior to his conversion to Christianity.
Then there were the "mystery religions" such as Orphism and Mithraism.
And then there were the various religions that grew out of Greek philosophy --- Stoicism, Neo-Platonism, and Epicureanism.
In common with Christianity, they had something to offer the individual worshiper, personally, that was lacking in the state religion.
What was different about Christianity was that it succeeded in becoming the state religion, a position from which it successfully suppressed the alternatives. As you put it: "They had the support of those in power and were even in a position to impose their religion on others. That's where the power was."
We can only speculate on what would have happened had Christianity been allowed to stand or fall on its own merits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by GDR, posted 08-16-2010 11:14 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 67 of 280 (574835)
08-18-2010 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by GDR
08-18-2010 2:24 AM


The thing is though, although we may know how, we don't know why atoms or molecules formed.
Nucleosynthesis and chemistry, respectively.
Either it is by random chance or by a designer.
Ah, the good ol' religious false dichotomy.
Chance doesn't come into it.
---
Incidentally, why do religious folks always say "random chance" as though there was some other, non-random, kind of chance?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by GDR, posted 08-18-2010 2:24 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by GDR, posted 08-18-2010 2:51 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 69 of 280 (574839)
08-18-2010 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by GDR
08-18-2010 2:51 AM


OK. If not chance then what is it? I keep hearing that evolution happens by natural selection and random chance.
But you have, I wager, never heard anyone say anything remotely like that about the formation of atoms.
Evolution is one thing. Nucleosynthesis is another. They are different things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by GDR, posted 08-18-2010 2:51 AM GDR has replied

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 Message 77 by GDR, posted 08-18-2010 4:30 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 172 of 280 (575401)
08-19-2010 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Bikerman
08-19-2010 8:42 PM


Any being infinite in historical extent must have knowledge of prior events which itself is therefore infinite - therefore God has infinite knowledge but doesn't know about the future of men...paradox. We can illustrate this as follows: Any being infinite in historical extent can be analogised by an infinite library - a library with an infinite number of books. Such a library must, by definition, contain a book with my entire life story written in it, and indeed the life story of every human who ever lived and who ever will live.
This is not necessarily the case. Consider the set of all integer squares 0, 1, 4, 9, 25, etc. This is of course infinite, but does not include every number.
Or your imaginary infinite library could consist of the infinite set of books which begin with the words: "This is the story of Englebert Humperdinck".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Bikerman, posted 08-19-2010 8:42 PM Bikerman has replied

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