The evolution of an atheist.

GDR writes:

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Let's assume that science can produce a chemical solution to abiogensis. We would think ourselves very clever but in order for that to happen someone would have to reproduce the situation that first brought life into the world. In other words the scientist in question would be the initiator or the designer if you like of this second abiogenesis. That then begs the question of who or what caused abiogenesis all those millions of years ago.

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We're back to the question that never gets answered! Yay!Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything?For example, suppose I take a handful of change and toss it on the ground. Do the coins come to their final position on their own or does god come down and personally, deliberately, and consciously place each coin in its final position?If they come to their position on their own, why would humans being able to create life chemically make humans the "designer"? It isn't like they are manually adjusting the chemical bonds of the molecules. They aren't grabbing individual atoms and pushing around electrons to create covalent and ionic bonds. Instead, they're just putting chemicals together and letting them react all on their own.Whether I put the vinegar and baking soda together or whether or not an earthquake shakes the shelves causing the box of baking soda to split open as it his the ground and the bottle of vinegar to shatter as it his the ground is immaterial. I am not the one causing the reaction between the acid and the base. How the chemicals get in proximity of each other such that they can react is of no consequence to the fact that they do react when in proximity. That happens all on its own.Unless, of course, nothing happens on its own.Is there anything that happens on its own?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

GDR responds to me......well, no. No, he doesn't. I asked only one question and rather than answer it, he avoided it. Let's try it again, shall we?Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything?

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Did Henry Ford design the model T?

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No. I mean, that's just a simple question of history. Ford wasn't an engineer. He didn't come up with the idea of the internal combustion engine, he didn't mine any of the iron or refine it into steel, harvest any of the rubber, etc., etc. Hell, he didn't even come up with the idea of the assembly line. And he sure as hell didn't actually make a single car with his own hands. Other people did all that for him.So now that I have answered your question, will you be kind enough to answer mine?Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Taz writes:

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evolution doesn't have the levers you need to direct it. You can't program evolution, you can't program environment.

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Yes, you can. On a large scale, it's called "artificial selection" and it's what breeders do all the time. They engage in selecting which allele expressions get to reproduce for the next generation. And in the case of insemination, we have the ability to select which embryos get to be allowed to progress to maturity.In fact, selective pressures can be so strong as to direct specific mutations within the genome. At the most primitive level, we must recognize that the genome itself is in an environment and thus, the chemical environment in which it finds itself will affect how it mutates. For example, 5-uracil causes specific kinds of point mutations. And we know that mutations happen in certain areas of the genome more than in others. Again, the physical environment in which the chromosome finds itself has an effect on how it mutates.

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ny attempt to insert a "plan" into evolution is bound to fail, because the plan gets degraded, randomly.

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That assumes that you allow non-controlled reproduction. If all reproduction is controlled, then you can most definitely "plan" your evolutionary path.Personally, I don't see any evidence of any such omnipresent tinkering. It is along the lines of those who claim that evolution is "mathematically impossible" not quite realizing that this necessarily means that god specifically, consciously, and deliberately came down and made sure that every single mating pair was specifically planned, deliberately caused the specific ovum and sperm to join, caused the two to mate at that specific time, in fact controlled the entire thing.This, of course, leads us to the question that never gets answered:Is there anything that happens on its own or is god required for everything?

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The notion of evolution following some kind of specified plan is just a non-starter.

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Yes, but not because the concept is untenable but rather because it is impractical and unevidenced.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.