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Author Topic:   Why complex form requires an Intelligent Designer
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 41 of 165 (358168)
10-22-2006 5:05 PM


Isn't this just the same old story?
Isn't KBC's whole argument just the same old misunderstanding of the nature of evolution as gradual change Vs the wholesale change argument put forward by proponents of ID everywhere? Isn't the OP effectively jumbo jets in junk yards again with jazzed up and overly complicated details?
KBC seems to be saying that a femur (in this case) could spontaneously become any one of an infinite number of bizzarrely shaped bones in one single jump between successive generations. He concludes that because there are only an impossibly small number of conceivable shapes that could be deemed useful that ID must be true!!!
Nobody is claiming Evolution works like this. A single mutation may result in a slight change in size, density, shape or any other physical attribute of the femur in question. That slight change may give a slight advantage to the survival and mating prospects of that individual organism which they then pass onto their offspring. And so we go on.
Nobody is claiming that randomly shaped bone structures appearing in randomly located bodily positions is any sort of method of evolution except KBC. The fact he then asserts that evolution cannot realistically take place by this method is trivially obvious to all!!!!!!
Either I have got the wrong end of the stick regards the OP or I don't get why the discussion is getting so bogged down in details when the whole premise of the OP is just the usual ID silliness seen time and time again.

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by RickJB, posted 10-22-2006 5:14 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 43 of 165 (358172)
10-22-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by RickJB
10-22-2006 5:14 PM


Re: Isn't this just the same old story?
But "ID silliness" is ALWAYS lacking in details. One useful way to reveal the limitations of such arguments is to mount a challenge based on detail
Fair enough. You have more patience than I do obviously.
To KBC I would just say - Nobody is claiming that single random major changes to particular bones (or anything else for that matter) are the mechanism by which evolution occurs. Your whole argument aginst random mutation rests on these sorts of dramatic physiological changes. Therefore all you have "demonstrated" (I use the term loosely) is that an obviously false mechanism of biological change that we would all agree is impossible is indeed impossible. Nobody is claiming otherwise. Congratulations for that.
Does your essay have anything to say regards small graduated changes to existing physiological structures? If not it has nothing to say about evolution by NS.

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 Message 42 by RickJB, posted 10-22-2006 5:14 PM RickJB has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 45 of 165 (358175)
10-22-2006 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by KBC1963
10-22-2006 9:00 AM


Unless you could show that any specific shape is constrained to occur then our observation of all the billions of shapes shows us that form is not constrained and thus can be any of an infinite set of possibilities.
Actually almost all shapes are precluded. Any shape (or other physical characteristic) of the body part affected by mutation must by definition be based on the original body part of the parent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by KBC1963, posted 10-22-2006 9:00 AM KBC1963 has not replied

  
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