Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,485 Year: 3,742/9,624 Month: 613/974 Week: 226/276 Day: 2/64 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 406 (574285)
08-15-2010 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
08-14-2010 4:17 PM


Personally, I could care less if a mosque was built on ground zero. I don't think ground zero is anything more that a piece of property where something bad happened once. This personal attatchment to this piece of land as some kind of representation of freedom and America, to me, seems rather pointless.
The bottom line is that there is no legal argument that would prevent anyone from purchasing the property. The question is whether or not it is a good investment. I have no doubt that this mosque will be subject to rampant vandalism, or worse, will be completely destroyed.
It's an insulting gesture to many Americans, something akin to:
1. Building a statue of Hitler at Auschwitz
2. Building a GWB monument in Bagdad
3. Building a Benihana at Pearl Harbor
(Not my material)
"Twist the knife a little deeper, and then pour salt on to the wound," is how a lot of Americans feel.
But even still, an insult is not against the law, so....
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by onifre, posted 08-14-2010 4:17 PM onifre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Dr Jack, posted 08-15-2010 8:28 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 08-15-2010 10:15 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 56 by Rrhain, posted 08-18-2010 12:32 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 406 (574293)
08-15-2010 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Dr Jack
08-15-2010 8:28 AM


It's an insulting gesture equivalent to building a church near a children's play centre - i.e. it isn't an insulting gesture. The notion that you can blithely equate the roughly billion Muslims in the world, and more specifically the millions of US citizens who are also Muslims, with the handful of people involved in the 9/11 attack who also happen to be Muslims is utter bullshit.
What are you getting pissed at me for? Don't shoot the messenger. Right or wrong, this is how many Americans view it -- as in imposition on sacred ground.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Dr Jack, posted 08-15-2010 8:28 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Dr Jack, posted 08-15-2010 8:52 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 62 by crashfrog, posted 08-18-2010 2:57 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 320 by nator, posted 09-04-2010 8:29 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 406 (574299)
08-15-2010 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dr Jack
08-15-2010 8:52 AM


If people have stupid, fuckwitted views should we bow to them, and ignore sense and legality, just because a lot of people hold those views?
I don't think it's an entirely "fuckwitted" view, they're simply making emotive arguments.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Dr Jack, posted 08-15-2010 8:52 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Dr Jack, posted 08-15-2010 9:31 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 406 (574312)
08-15-2010 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Theodoric
08-15-2010 10:15 AM


Though not your material, you used it. The material is not relevant and as we can see not even accurate.
I used it to express the sentiments of millions of Americans, not explain my own stance. I stated that there is no legal basis to bar it, however, from the perspective of those building it, they might want to consider that it almost certainly will be vandalized and/or suffer arson.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 08-15-2010 10:15 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 08-15-2010 10:45 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 08-15-2010 3:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 406 (574314)
08-15-2010 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Huntard
08-15-2010 10:17 AM


Seems like Jesus is saying that "touching" little children is the Kingdom of god, and that little children should be "touched".
That's a rather dubious twisting of scripture, don't you think? Since when is touching someone necessarily sexually fondling them?
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Huntard, posted 08-15-2010 10:17 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dr Jack, posted 08-15-2010 10:59 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 24 by Huntard, posted 08-15-2010 11:24 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 406 (578995)
09-03-2010 9:39 AM


My take
The very bottom line is this: The United States, being a Constitutional Republic, is bound by the laws therein.
There is no legal justification to prevent willing buyers who have the capital to build a mosque, a church, a store, a frigging petting zoo.
Being a nation of laws, we cannot go off on crusades to destroy things that are personally offensive. And since we are all granted the right to be as offensive as we want, we really have to take the good with the bad. When you start jeopardizing the rights and freedoms of others, your rights and freedoms are also imperiled.
Unless we have some kind of probable cause stating otherwise, the United States assumes innocence before guilt (in theory, anyway). We must do the same.
Now, my personal belief is that these muslims can take their peace offering and shove straight up their ass. Spare me the song and dance, because I don't care. And they shouldn't be surprised that the American public is reticent or offended by this.
Strictly from a pragmatic viewpoint, if I were the titleholder of this piece of property, I wouldn't have purchased it to begin with. It's a terrible investment. Something really bad is going to happen to that mosque. I'm certainly not advocating anything be done to it, but I know there's a bunch of crazy good 'ole boys out there who will ensure that thing is a pile of rubble.
But, guess what? We're all offended, all the time, and we don't have right not to be.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024