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Author Topic:   Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 3 of 406 (574280)
08-15-2010 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
08-14-2010 4:17 PM


Building the mosque "is a deliberately provocative act that will precipitate more bloodshed in the name of Allah," the group claimed.
Yeah, nothing provokes Muslims more than being allowed to build mosques. You'd think if it annoyed them that much they could just stop building mosques, but you know what religious folks are like.
I predict wave after wave of Islamic suicide bombers demanding that American Muslims be stripped of their First Amendment rights.
I note the article ends with the news that a Florida church is organizing a book-burning. This might conciliate them somewhat, but it hardly amounts to the governmental suppression of their religion that these fanatics are apparently prepared to kill and die for.
And now back to the real world for the weather.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 406 (574371)
08-15-2010 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by slevesque
08-15-2010 1:48 PM


Well, if you want a better analogy, is it OK to build a church in Salem? There seem to be 27 of them, which some might think tasteless.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 55 of 406 (574822)
08-17-2010 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by archaeologist
08-17-2010 7:44 AM


the muslims are not dumb and they would know that seeking permission to build near ground zero would cause problems.
How would they know that? There've been mosques near Ground Zero for years and no-one complained, let alone tried to turn it into a national issue.
Of course, if the wingnuts had complained previously, it would have been the Blessed Saint George who'd have been explaining that the President doesn't have the power to cut the First Amendment out of the Constitution with his special Executive Scissors, and so back then it was in no-one's interest to make a fuss about it; just as no-one was demonstrating against high taxes until Obama lowered them; and just as no-one cared about "czars" until Obama followed the example of every other recent President by appointing them.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 69 of 406 (575112)
08-18-2010 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by archaeologist
08-18-2010 5:13 PM


ahh the nitpickers and over-literalists, where would we be without them?
If it wasn't for people pointing out the facts, you'd still be just as wrong.
But at least you'd have some sort of an excuse for it.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 99 of 406 (576088)
08-22-2010 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by onifre
08-22-2010 6:09 PM


Agreed. But since it was American's insulting Muslims, Obama didn't speak up about it. He didn't make it a government issue, like he has in the case of the mosque.
He was asked about the mosque. And he replied that it was not a government issue.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 129 of 406 (576156)
08-22-2010 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by crashfrog
08-22-2010 10:10 PM


Well, you know, Americans love Muslims, it's really too bad that 9/11 victims and their families aren't more popular and widely regarded, they just can't get a fair shake around here, huh?
Well played, sir, well played.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 138 of 406 (576181)
08-23-2010 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Coyote
08-22-2010 10:22 PM


Re: Cordoba
Did anyone notice the name?
I posted the information about building a mosque on the church in Cordoba, Spain as a symbol of taking that territory.
Or because, being Muslims, they wanted a mosque. For which reason (according to every source I can find) they bought the land on which the half-built church stood in what would probably have been an even better expression of naked military triumphalism if they'd just, y'know ... taken it.
Is it just a coincidence that this mosque is also named Cordoba?
Well, it could be because the group building the center is called the Cordoba Initiative. Or is that just a coincidence?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 139 of 406 (576191)
08-23-2010 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Coyote
08-22-2010 10:37 PM


Re: Cordoba
For reasons which are obvious enough, people celebrate what was good of its time.
If someone named something after Thomas Jefferson, then we'd suppose that they were in favor of freedom and democracy rather than slavery and the disenfranchisement of women. If someone named something after Isaac Newton, we'd suppose that they were in favor of math and science rather than alchemy and Biblical hermeneutics. And if someone names something after Cordoba, we may suppose that they are celebrating tolerance and multiculturalism rather than the jizya, since of its day Cordoba was a shining example of how people of different faiths could get along.
If I was to object that since I know more physics than Newton and am a better libertarian than Jefferson and a stronger supporter of the Free Exercise Clause than some Andalusian emir, all three institutions should be named after me, this would be missing the point rather. Anyone can be of their time, it's being ahead of one's time that's the trick.
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 174 of 406 (576402)
08-24-2010 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Rrhain
08-23-2010 7:01 PM


Right, because Muslims are so dominant in US society. That's why everything is shut down on Fridays ...
N.B: for Muslims, Friday is a day when they're obliged to participate in communal rather than individual prayer; but it is not supposed to be kept as a day of rest like the Jewish Sabbath.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 177 of 406 (576429)
08-24-2010 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Tempo
08-24-2010 3:37 AM


Re: A few points to make.
Until I see people protesting the building of a deli or an insurance branch near ground zero ...
Or the strip clubs and the betting parlor.
Hallowed ground, y'know. Well, kinda hallowed. Hallowed-ish.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 208 of 406 (576778)
08-25-2010 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by riVeRraT
08-25-2010 12:02 PM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
Not sure if it was discussed, but did anyone say that the planned opening date for the Mosque was supposed to be 9/11/11?
A number of people have said that. There's even a name for these people. They're called "liars".
As I mentioned before, I am for letting them build a Mosque, but I should also add, that if they are constructing some kind of Shrine to what happened there, then I am obviously not for it.
Plans do involve a memorial to the victims. Which is obviously just evil.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 215 of 406 (576842)
08-25-2010 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by riVeRraT
08-25-2010 8:31 PM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
I was assuming that this particular group of Muslims would be under the watchful eye of homeland security ...
More like hand in hand with them:
Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is a founder of Cordoba Initiative and serves as its board chair [...] At the FBI’s request after 9/11, he provided cultural training to hundreds of its agents, and the U.S. State Department under presidents George W. Bush and Barak Obama has invited him on several extended overseas speaking tours to represent a positive view of the United States and build international respect for our nation.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 216 of 406 (576843)
08-25-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by riVeRraT
08-25-2010 8:34 PM


Re: Listen
Listen, there is nothing wrong with questioning the motives of Muslims, since it was Muslims who declared Jihad on us. Of course I do not believe that every Muslim believes that all infidels should die. But they are taught to lie to us, and keep the truth to themselves. What does that leave us to think about them? How do we differentiate?
"By their fruits shall ye know them."

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 222 of 406 (577046)
08-27-2010 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by riVeRraT
08-25-2010 8:34 PM


Re: Listen
Listen, there is nothing wrong with questioning the motives of Muslims, since it was Muslims who declared Jihad on us. Of course I do not believe that every Muslim believes that all infidels should die. But they are taught to lie to us, and keep the truth to themselves. What does that leave us to think about them? How do we differentiate?
The same question would surely apply not just to people who say they're moderate Muslims but to people who say they're not Muslims at all. Like you.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 319 of 406 (579304)
09-04-2010 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by riVeRraT
09-02-2010 11:28 PM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
Which means absolutely nothing.
Actually, it does mean something. It means that the FBI has checked them out, that the State Department under Bush has checked them out, and that the State Department under Obama has checked them out.
It is a terrorists job to hide in plain sight.
So, are you, or are you not, a secret Muslim terrorist? Of course, you appear not to be, but it is your job to hide in plain sight, and you haven't been checked out by the FBI and two successive State Departments.
WTF is the problem? If they are clean, they have nothing to worry about.
You seem to be implying that you said that they should be checked out further and I demurred. This is not the case.
If Homeland Security think them worth looking over one more time, then let them do so.
People get investigated all the dam time, over stupid shit. there obviously is a stir, and it should be governments job to calm the people down. Make sure, this way there can be no " I told you so"
Two successive governments have apparently investigated the question, and yet people are not calm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by riVeRraT, posted 09-02-2010 11:28 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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