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Author Topic:   Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 406 (574368)
08-15-2010 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by slevesque
08-15-2010 2:11 PM


Again, I don't really see the distinction. Both behaviors were destructive and if you weighed the two, I'd tend to think that the greater harm was all the kids molested.
BUT, my point is that bringing up 9-11 or Priest Pedophiles is simply playing to the mass hysteria audience.
The fact is that in the US, Freedom of Religion is a basic Right, and it is the rights of the very religions that we might most dislike that we should work the hardest to protect.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 406 (574371)
08-15-2010 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by slevesque
08-15-2010 1:48 PM


Well, if you want a better analogy, is it OK to build a church in Salem? There seem to be 27 of them, which some might think tasteless.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 33 of 406 (574374)
08-15-2010 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Hyroglyphx
08-15-2010 10:33 AM


Hyro writes:
I stated that there is no legal basis to bar it, however, from the perspective of those building it, they might want to consider that it almost certainly will be vandalized and/or suffer arson.
While I know what you mean, we all know using 9/11 to oppose the building of the mosque is just a lame ass excuse. Americans have been protesting the building of mosques around the country for as long as there have been people wanting to build mosques here. John Stewart, while being funny, made a really good point about this.
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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4662 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 34 of 406 (574375)
08-15-2010 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
08-15-2010 2:23 PM


As I said in my first post. I don,t really have an opinion on all this. I'm not american, nor was I very old when 9/11 happened. (This answer is equally valid to Dr.A's response I guess)
And on a side note:
Again, I don't really see the distinction. Both behaviors were destructive and if you weighed the two, I'd tend to think that the greater harm was all the kids molested.
The priest-pedophilia connection is vastly overrated, read this article by a non-catholic author:Page not found - ZENIT - English
Some of the main points:
Priestly celibacy is not the issue - married men are more likely to abuse children than unmarried
Most child abuse takes place within the home.
All religious groups have pedophile scandals, and the Catholics (while the largest religious group) are at the bottom of the list statistically.
Child abuse is prevalent in all areas of society: schools, youth organizations, sports, etc.
Statistically, of all the professions, Christian clergy are least likely to offend. Doctors, Farmers and Teachers are the professions most likely to abuse children--not clergy.
Among clergy offenders Catholic priests are least likely to offend.
Catholic cases of pedophilia make more headlines because of anti Catholic prejudice and because the Catholic Church is bigger and more lucractive to sue.
Pedophilia and Euphebophilia are different problems. The former is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. The latter is attraction to teenagers. Most cases branded 'pedophila' are actually 'euphebophila.'
Most of the cases of euphebophilia are homosexual in nature, however the politically correct do not want this problem to be associated with homosexuality.
(more here:AllAboutMothering.com Acquires MommyLife.net Domain - All About Mothering)

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 Message 38 by subbie, posted 08-15-2010 3:31 PM slevesque has replied
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 35 of 406 (574377)
08-15-2010 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by slevesque
08-15-2010 3:11 PM


The priest-pedophilia connection is vastly overrated, read this article by a non-catholic author:Page not found - ZENIT - English
So's the Islam-terrorism link.

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4662 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 36 of 406 (574378)
08-15-2010 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Dr Jack
08-15-2010 3:17 PM


Maybe, isn't relevant to my original point about your analogy though.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 37 of 406 (574379)
08-15-2010 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by slevesque
08-15-2010 1:50 PM


That's right Timothy McVeigh only killed 168, and Eric Rudolph only killed 2. Though both did injure hundreds. I suppose Scott Roeder and the other abortion provider clinics don't count either.
I wont even go into the ancient history of the 1980's and earlier.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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subbie
Member (Idle past 1276 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 38 of 406 (574380)
08-15-2010 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by slevesque
08-15-2010 3:11 PM


Even assuming all your statistics are true, my question is this:
Have any of those other groups of people done nearly as much as the Catholics to cover up past and enable future child molestation?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4662 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 39 of 406 (574381)
08-15-2010 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by subbie
08-15-2010 3:31 PM


Not my statistics, and I totally agree that covering up even one child molestation is morally wrong.
But sometimes I find it unfair to all those goodwilled priests that get constantly associated with pedophilia when in fact it's even less common amongst them then amongst a lot of other professions.

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4662 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 40 of 406 (574383)
08-15-2010 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Theodoric
08-15-2010 3:29 PM


Their motivations were their christian beliefs ? ( I don't know either of them, sorry)

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 41 of 406 (574386)
08-15-2010 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by slevesque
08-15-2010 3:43 PM


Gee, maybe you can learn something and do a quick google at least.
Yes their motivations were their christian beliefs.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 42 of 406 (574388)
08-15-2010 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by slevesque
08-15-2010 3:38 PM


Not my statistics
So you post a link with purported statistics and now you refuse to even vouch for their accuracy. That must be against some sort of rule. How about you look at how the came up with the statistics and let us know if they are accurate. Until then I guess I will just have to assume that they are just bullshit.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 43 of 406 (574390)
08-15-2010 4:04 PM


The "picture worth a thousand words" concept here

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 44 of 406 (574391)
08-15-2010 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Minnemooseus
08-15-2010 4:04 PM


Re: The "picture worth a thousand words" concept here
You beat me to it. I just read the post and was coming back to post it.
This graphic is a great representation of the situation.

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slevesque
Member (Idle past 4662 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 45 of 406 (574566)
08-16-2010 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Theodoric
08-15-2010 3:52 PM


That sort of reply is why I hate having any sort of discussion with you.
How can I vouch for their accuracy, when I'm not the one who did the research ? However, Philip Jenkins is professor of history and religious studies at Penn State University, he wrote a book about ''The myth of the pedophile priest'' as he calls it.
The burden of proof is on you to show any legitimate reason to think his research is bullshit. Until then you are just showing your bias.

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