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Author Topic:   Creation as Science
Taq
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Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 9 of 83 (575369)
08-19-2010 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by archaeologist
08-19-2010 5:29 PM


the only 'observation' done by evolutionists is via their 'prediciton' method which is then extrapolated backwards. no prediction is exclusive and cannot be considered evidence for the existence of the process of evolution. the predictions made are constructed in a manner to bring the desired conclusion, and cannot be considered honest.
You do know how the scientific method works, do you not? What do you think a hypothesis is? How does one test a hypothesis using the scientific method?
Before we dig too deep into the evo v. creo debate perhaps we should first agree on how science is done, don't you agree?

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 Message 8 by archaeologist, posted 08-19-2010 5:29 PM archaeologist has replied

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 Message 14 by archaeologist, posted 08-20-2010 1:29 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 36 of 83 (575549)
08-20-2010 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by archaeologist
08-20-2010 1:29 AM


no. because how secular science does it methods, omits data and pursues a false conclusion.
So describe how the scientific method SHOULD be followed, and why. Perhaps you could use a simple example to illustrate your points.
your ideas in the first paragraph do not allow for variables or variation and thus is too limited to deal with the topic of origins.
So how do we determine, in a scientific manner, what variables or variations are in effect?
we do not need to 'create' a hyptohesis for origins because we already know what it is and those who reject that explanation scramble to replace it with some fictional account they cannot prove and leave people without any answers.
So creationists are infallible, and anything they say is automatically true without the need to test it? Is that what you are saying?

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 40 of 83 (575634)
08-20-2010 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Admin
08-20-2010 2:52 PM


Re: Where are the other viable options?
I think it would be a big help if Archaeologist would begin his presentation of how creation should be considered part of modern science.
I was also curious as to how archaeologist defines "modern science". We would be going backwards if archaeologist was using a strawman version of "modern science" and then showing how creation fit that strawman.

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 Message 44 by archaeologist, posted 08-22-2010 5:48 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10038
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 71 of 83 (576262)
08-23-2010 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by archaeologist
08-22-2010 5:48 AM


Re: Where are the other viable options?
i do not. what the original argument and the last post did was use the secular idea for modern science.
This is hurdle number one. In reading the article linked in the OP it has become quite clear that you don't know how the scientific method works, the foundation of "secular" science. For instance, in your article you say:
"1. Principle of evidence - any scientific statement should be proved. Without objective and conclusive proofs any scientific statement is only a speculative guess."
You get it wrong right away. Nothing in science is "proven". Proof is for math and alcohol. Scientific statements must be testable and potentially falsifiable. That is the requirement, not proof.
Then we get to the second principle:
"2. Principle of possible non-authenticity (falsification principle) - any scientific statement can be rejected by contradicting data and facts. In science, as well as in any kind of activity, there is a place for errors and faults. Science in the process of its development rejects its conclusions and deductions, which appeared to be false. The science is constant doubt. Both force of science and its main difference from nonscientific views of cognition are included into this process.4"
This is partially wrong. The falsification principle is that you must be able to describe specific conditions under which your theory is false. Mind you, these potential observations need not be observed, only potentially observable. For example, a mammal-bird transitional fossil or a rabbit in Cambrian strata are both potential observations that would falsify the theory of evolution. So what are some potential observations in the fossil record that would falsify creationism? Can you name any? Or are there no potential observations that would falsify Creationism?
So to sum up, in order for Creationism to meet the requirements of modern science it needs to be testable and falsifiable. Without these two basic things it fails to meet the requirements of modern "secular" science.
Reading further into your article, it appears that you throw both of these things out the window. You simply proclaim creationism to be true by fiat, therefore no need for testing or the naming of potential observations that would falsify creationism:
"We can question how the universe or the things on earth work but for the creative act, we do not need to waste the time for the answer is already supplied for us10"
So you already have the answer, so why use science to test it? Is that your view? Do you think it is a scientific view?

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