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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design vs. Real Science
jar
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Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 7 of 142 (578866)
09-02-2010 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mosassam
09-02-2010 9:52 PM


Re: Life
No more than the SCOTUS can describe pornography.
There are things that we can say are definitely alive, like most family, and things we can say are definitely not alive, like rocks, but at some point the difference is so small and subjective that we cannot say definitely or can only say that at times the thing is alive and at other times it is not.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 38 of 142 (589312)
11-01-2010 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Buzsaw
10-29-2010 8:49 PM


Re: When ID Becomes Scientific
Buz writes:
If I had my druthers, science classes should have the freedom to apply all of the evidence supportive to ID, including that evidence which conventional science disallows.
I look forward to you presenting that evidence as opposed to simply asserting that such evidence exists.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 47 of 142 (600683)
01-16-2011 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Buzsaw
01-16-2011 10:41 AM


Re: When ID Becomes Scientific
Buz writes:
When he designed the animals and mankind, for example, he took soil, intelligently assembling the elements into what he wished to make. In that he, having a higher intelligence than that of the creatures which he made, including mankind, he had the knowledge and ability to assemble and fashion the elements into what pleased him to make.
How did he do that Buz, did he move genes around using a pipette or just his fingers.
Buz writes:
After he fashioned the body he inflated the lungs with his life giving breath, having properties suitable for initiating life into the fashioned body
How do that work Buz, what exactly is it in that magic breath that is life giving? What are those properties? What is their chemical makeup?
Buz writes:
Thus the topic debate of this thread, Intelligent Design vs Real Science boils down to debating the evidence supportive to such a designer.
No Buz, the issue is that there is a model in real science while there is NO model or even knowledge to be gained in Inept Design.
Try providing a model.
ID will become scientific when, and only when, a model is presented and tested that explains how the designer interacts to control outcomes. Of course, once that happens the designer is no longer relevant except as an historical footnote or in the case of product liability suits.
Edited by jar, : add last paragraph

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 01-16-2011 10:41 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-16-2011 11:39 PM jar has replied
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 01-17-2011 6:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 50 of 142 (600797)
01-17-2011 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Dawn Bertot
01-16-2011 11:39 PM


Re: When ID Becomes Scientific
When you present the model for how the designer intervenes then perhaps we can discuss it. Simply continuing to say it is the same model means nothing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-16-2011 11:39 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-17-2011 11:40 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 60 of 142 (600832)
01-17-2011 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dawn Bertot
01-17-2011 11:40 AM


Re: When ID Becomes Scientific
And so you have no model to present.
Sorry Charlie, you don't even get the worm.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Dawn Bertot, posted 01-17-2011 11:40 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 80 of 142 (601240)
01-19-2011 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
01-17-2011 6:52 PM


Re: When ID Becomes Scientific
By the same token, precisely how did each step of evolution allegedly progress into something as complex as the human brain? No generalities or speculative possibilities allowed. You must precisely explain each progressive factor which accomplished the feat and how each factor overcame the tendency of order to regress into disorder all the way from bio-genesis to the modern human brain with all of it's complexity.
We have that model Buz, it is called the Theory of Evolution".
Now present yours.
Also your problem would be to refute each corroborative evidence supportive to the existence of the Biblical designer as per the Biblical record.
If and when you present such evidence we will examine it. So far ALL the so called evidence you have presented has been refuted.
By the same token, without conjecture, possibilities, and/or assumptions ,precisely how did each progressive factor life giving breath overcome each regressive obstacle and progress into the modern function of the human lung?
HUH?
Word salad. I don't even know of any evidence there is some life giving breath or what any of the rest of that alleged sentence means.
You need models for each progressive step of my propositions above and you need to empirically falsify each of the many corroborative evidences of the existence of a designer existing in the Universe having a higher intelligence than what we experience on the tiny speck called Planet Earth; that is a designer capable of fashioning elements available into a functional body and breathing charged energetic elements into the lungs of the fashioned body to bring the fashioned body to life as we observe it.
More word salad Buz, utter nonsense.
If and when you ever present any "corroborating evidence" THEN it can be examined.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 01-17-2011 6:52 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 113 of 142 (613278)
04-24-2011 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by ringo
04-24-2011 9:31 AM


Re: When creationists talk sense
Order is a conclusion as well.
But the real issue is the one that Dawn has always avoided addressing and only claimed he doesn't have to address.
Currently science has found and demonstrated the method and mechanisms, the model, that explains the evolution of the variety of life we see today.
Dawn has consistently refused to address the method and the mechanism, the model, that explains how his imagined designer influences and interferes to create the variety of life we see today.
Dawn simply has nothing and has never talked sense.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by ringo, posted 04-24-2011 9:31 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-24-2011 7:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 118 of 142 (613337)
04-24-2011 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Dawn Bertot
04-24-2011 7:24 PM


Re: When creationists talk sense
Method and model Dawn, what is your method and model;.
Until you present that claiming ID is science is simply bullshit.
What is the method and model that the designer uses to influence and direct evolution?
Method and model Dawn, what is the method and model.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-24-2011 7:24 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-24-2011 7:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 121 of 142 (613341)
04-24-2011 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Dawn Bertot
04-24-2011 7:30 PM


Re: When creationists talk sense
Method and model Dawn, what is your method and model;.
Until you present that claiming ID is science is simply bullshit.
What is the method and model that the designer uses to influence and direct evolution?
Method and model Dawn, what is the method and model.
And No, when it comes to ID Behe is not doing science.
So you are answered now ...
Method and model Dawn, what is your method and model;.
Until you present that claiming ID is science is simply bullshit.
What is the method and model that the designer uses to influence and direct evolution?
Method and model Dawn, what is the method and model.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Dawn Bertot, posted 04-24-2011 7:30 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
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