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Author
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Topic: Hypocrisy at funerals
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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The others went to the funeral because they believe or hope that the person is forgiven by God. There is no hypocrisy in their behavior. However you went and participated even though you do NOT believe in what the service was about or even seem to hope that the person is forgiven and in a better place. That is hypocritical. They may well be inconsistent, wrong, deluded about the subject but none of those rises to the level of hypocrisy.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 17 of 58 (575576)
08-20-2010 2:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 15 by Huntard
08-20-2010 2:04 PM
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Again, even if that were true, it is irrelevant to this topic. The issue is "Hypocrisy at funerals". BUT, almost all Christian groups recognize that salvation is a function of God's Grace. Nothing in there precludes forgiveness.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by Huntard, posted 08-20-2010 2:04 PM | | Huntard has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 18 of 58 (575577)
08-20-2010 2:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by jar
08-20-2010 2:04 PM
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Ahh, I see the misunderstanding. You think a funeral is nothing more than a religious service (which is also part of the topic).
However you went and participated even though you do NOT believe in what the service was about or even seem to hope that the person is forgiven and in a better place. I went (as I stated in the OP) because: a) I hadn't seen the guy in 10 years b) to console his mother c) to see him one last time before he was cremated. My attendance had FUCK ALL to do with religion or my lack thereof. I went in spite of the assumed religious nature of the service for the benefit of my other friend (who was best friends with the deceased) and the mother of the deceased.
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 2:04 PM | | jar has not replied |
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nwr
Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.9
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A funeral is a cultural tradition and ritual. One should think of a funeral speech as a ritual performance, rather than as a statement of belief. It is more important that it conform to the traditions, than that it express truth. Personally, I hate rituals. But sometimes one is obliged to participate in them.
hooah212002 writes:I find it odd that through all he had done negatively in life and the fact that he committed suicide that they still decided to think of him as being in an allegedly wonderful place that heaven is purported to be. For me personally, it hammered home the reality that any thought of an afterlife is simply there as a consolation factor.
This sort of looking on the positive side is part of the tradition. When you think about it, there isn't much point in continuing to bear a grudge against somebody who has died.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by hooah212002, posted 08-18-2010 3:27 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2321 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: 09-02-2008
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Message 20 of 58 (575580)
08-20-2010 2:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 17 by jar
08-20-2010 2:06 PM
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jar writes: Again, even if that were true, it is irrelevant to this topic. The issue is "Hypocrisy at funerals".
Fair enough. Christians aren't hypocritical at funerals, they're hypocritical when they tell you you should behave or you can't go to heaven.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 2:06 PM | | jar has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 21 of 58 (575583)
08-20-2010 2:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 17 by jar
08-20-2010 2:06 PM
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BUT, almost all Christian groups recognize that salvation is a function of God's Grace. Nothing in there precludes forgiveness. Huntard hit the nail on the head. The hypocrisy is at the religious level, in that, as Huntard pointed out, the religious (christians for the sake of this discussion) claim moral superiority due to their salvation. Is not the whole point of christianity to spend eternity hanging out with jehovah? Isn't that their claimed purpose in life? Isn't that why they claim to do good and moral things?
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 2:06 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by jar, posted 08-20-2010 3:06 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 22 of 58 (575587)
08-20-2010 2:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by Huntard
08-20-2010 2:16 PM
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Perhaps I worded my topic wrong? This is the message I failed at conveying..... ABE: Perhaps it should be "christian hypocrisy rears it's ugly head at funerals". How's that for a title? Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Huntard, posted 08-20-2010 2:16 PM | | Huntard has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 26 by ringo, posted 08-20-2010 2:57 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Stile
Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: 12-02-2004
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More Ironic than Hypocritical
I'm always uncomfortable at funerals. One's when I know the deceased and even those when I don't. Not because someone's dead... more because "a funeral" doesn't exactly fit with my own personal way of dealing with death. On the surface, I agree, many funerals about how awesome the dead person was can seem extremely hypocritical. Other things like old friends (or family) showing up for the funeral when they never bothered to see the person when they were alive only add to the surface-hypocrisy. However, once I understood that "funerals are for the living". This hypocrisy all disappeared. Really, as far as I can tell, the entire point of funerals has nothing to do with taking care of the dead... it has to do with taking care of those still living as they deal with death. In that sense... the living can pretty much do whatever they want and it's pretty much impossible for them to be hypocritical towards that reasoning. As for my own personal "funeral", I don't have any specific requests. In understanding that funerals are for the living, my request is to be dealt with in whatever way those still living see best to help them. Personally, I don't see any reason for it not to be cheap and quick... but if it helps someone here to make it lavish and prolonged... all the best to them, I'm sure I won't complain at that point 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by hooah212002, posted 08-18-2010 3:27 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 24 of 58 (575591)
08-20-2010 2:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by nwr
08-20-2010 2:13 PM
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One should think of a funeral speech as a ritual performance, rather than as a statement of belief. Even when the pastor is talking about his personal road to salvation, literally?
When you think about it, there isn't much point in continuing to bear a grudge against somebody who has died. I'm not saying I bear a grudge, or that anyone else should. If they simply relegate the thought of an afterlife to one of simply something to make the mourning process easier, fine. But don't at the same time tell me how much of an evil sinner person I am simply for not believing your fairy tale all the while thinking this shit bag of a person is so wonderful. I will have to qualify this by saying that no one attending said funeral did this.
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 2:13 PM | | nwr has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 27 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 2:58 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 25 of 58 (575593)
08-20-2010 2:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by Stile
08-20-2010 2:39 PM
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Re: More Ironic than Hypocritical
On the surface, I agree, many funerals about how awesome the dead person was can seem extremely hypocritical.
Other things like old friends (or family) showing up for the funeral when they never bothered to see the person when they were alive only add to the surface-hypocrisy. Is this your way of telling me I am the hypocrite here?
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by Stile, posted 08-20-2010 2:39 PM | | Stile has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by Stile, posted 08-20-2010 3:25 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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hooah212002 writes: Perhaps it should be "christian hypocrisy rears it's ugly head at funerals". How's that for a title?
You seem to be missing the obvious:
quote:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (Matthew 7:1-2)
Christians aren't supposed to decide whether the deceased is going to heaven or not. Funerals are among the rare occasions when they remember that. I find that non-Christians are more hypocritical at funerals. They'll say things like, "He's in a better place," even though they don't believe in such a place.
Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.
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nwr
Member Posts: 6411 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: 08-08-2005 Member Rating: 4.9
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hooah212002 writes:Even when the pastor is talking about his personal road to salvation, literally?
That's what pastors do. If a pastor is invited to speak at a funeral, that's what you have to expect. Yes, I'll grant that there is hypocrisy in religion. I don't think it is worse at funerals than at other times. There's probably hypocrisy is all religion, but fundamentalist Christianity seems worse than other varieties of Christianity.
Jesus was a liberal hippie
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 29 by hooah212002, posted 08-20-2010 3:05 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 28 of 58 (575598)
08-20-2010 3:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
08-20-2010 2:57 PM
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You seem to be missing the obvious: Fuckin' A. I sure did. That totally slipped my mind. You could almost QED this shit now.
I find that non-Christians are more hypocritical at funerals. They'll say things like, "He's in a better place," even though they don't believe in such a place. Yes, that would be hypocritical. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by ringo, posted 08-20-2010 2:57 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 828 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 29 of 58 (575599)
08-20-2010 3:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 27 by nwr
08-20-2010 2:58 PM
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If a pastor is invited to speak at a funeral, that's what you have to expect. I guess I don't know much about funerals then. This was my first one in about 20 years.
Your god believes in Unicorns
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by nwr, posted 08-20-2010 2:58 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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The hypocrisy is at the religious level, in that, as Huntard pointed out, the religious (christians for the sake of this discussion) claim moral superiority due to their salvation. Again, that is still not hypocrisy.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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