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Author Topic:   Which animals would populate the earth if the ark was real?
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 136 of 991 (705216)
08-24-2013 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by New Cat's Eye
08-23-2013 9:38 AM


... invoke magic as explanation...

Why not invoke magic? Especially when the stories imply it?

Yeah, one must postulate things like giving the creator God the power to do anything he wishes as an attribute not exactly mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Or, one can understand the story as an allegory which Benito did...

This same approach found favor with the Jewish Kabbalahists:

Both of these more ancient criticisms of the story lead us to consider the ark as carrying the animals o side man's head:

Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2013 9:38 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-25-2013 7:44 PM kofh2u has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


(1)
Message 141 of 991 (705236)
08-25-2013 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by mindspawn
08-25-2013 4:35 AM


... before the Big Bang Theory...

With a book so clearly describing origins before modern archaeology discovers these origins, its possible the bible is literally accurate about other stories as well.

I agree, but would expand what you said to read ..."before modern times."

Genesis is becoming confirmed verse by verse as evidence appears that was not available to the ancient readers.

The Big Bang was an In the beginning moment when Time started ticking to the beat of 13.5 Billion years later.

And, Biology agrees that the Plant Kingdom did appear before the Animal Kingdom, just as Genesis says.

Statement like Gen 1:9 ..."and all the were collected together into one place" sounded ridiculous even in 1920, just before Pangea was discovered.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by mindspawn, posted 08-25-2013 4:35 AM mindspawn has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 142 of 991 (705237)
08-25-2013 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by PaulK
08-25-2013 4:56 AM


... genetics and archeology suppport the Exodus

I hate to break it to you, but the Jewish captivity in Egypt - and the post-Exodus Conquest - do appear to be pretty much legendary, with little basis in history, as revealed by archaeology.

Get up to date on this.

Genetic research has given support to the claim in Exodus, that all Jewish priest were related to one man who lived 3362 years ago.

That would be consistent with the range of the claims for Aaron, whose sons were appointed as the priesthood.

A second largely un-discussed archeological discovery of monotheism appearing in Egypt 3362 years ago coincides with the genetic evidence mentioned above.


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 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 08-25-2013 4:56 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 168 of 991 (705348)
08-26-2013 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by PaulK
08-26-2013 10:08 AM


...Hyksos were the Jews who ruled by buying Egypt...

That is Rohl making the exact same mistake as he condemned the earlier Biblical archaeologists for. The Amarna letters fit better with Canaan before Israel. Semitic settlements in Egypt are only proof of Canaanites living in Egypt (and in the case of the Hyksos, ruling a large portion - hardly slaves!)

There is strong case for the theory that during a great famine, on the advice Joseph, Pharaoh bought up all the property in exchange for the food which Joseph had corner the market on previously.
The brothers of Joseph also participated in this exchange which ended with those earliest immigrants controlling Egypt.
After 200 years, the Egyptians managed to re-gain control under a Pharaoh, enslaved the whole upper class of that society which was called Hyksos.

In the time of Moses, 200 years later, the whole of Egypt converted to monotheism because there was no defense against the startling discovery of Uranus by Moses.

This discovery rocked all Egypt because the Planets for centuries were consider Gods, and this Unseen God as revealed by Moses could not be denied since he and Aaron pointed out to the common Egyptians on the street before discussion with Pharaoh began.

At first reluctant, the Pharaoh, (Akhenaten or Amenhotep IV, 1379-1362 BC), had no other choice but to try and appropriate the position of that unseen God on earth in order to bring together the two factions which had split Egyptians in debate.

This supposition is supported today by the genetic evidence that establishes the one common father, Aaron, for all the members of that singular set of priests called the Kohans, who are all progeny of the sons of Aaron.


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 169 of 991 (705349)
08-26-2013 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by New Cat's Eye
08-25-2013 7:44 PM


Re: ... invoke magic as explanation...

Like the psychologist said to he man wearing nothing but saran wrap:
"I can clearly see you're nuts."

hahaaaaaaa....

Talking about nuts and psychologist, how that guy who killed his whole family but was too young to be treated as an adult, so they let him out of jail in no time and now, he holds a chair in psychologist at some college?

But I assume this off the topic comment was to deflect the conjectures from the centuries past?

You see that such religious organizations as the Jewish Kabbalahists, saw the "flood" story as a "carrying over" of Modern man, out-of-Africa, even BEFORE the world realized that there had been a mass extinction of lower forms and species o humans 40,000 years ago???


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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 276 of 991 (705836)
09-02-2013 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Tangle
08-29-2013 3:32 AM


Re: But the Biblical Flood myths have been totally refuted.

Noah's ark was sat on a mountain, so even though he was dry, he had to wait a while for the bath water to drain out. (Where to?)

I love the idea that anything could grow on land poisoned by salt water.

I love the idea that an olive tree would survive being totally submerged by brackish water for months - it obviously hadn't grown from seed in a few days. Or was this a miracle?

I also love the idea that the entire ecosystem of the globe could be destroyed then spring immediately back to life in a matter of days.

Yep.

These points you make nullify the story as the people during the Middle Ages understood it. It doesn't add up factual when we examine the science evidence.

As a literary critic, giving the author the benefit of the doubt and suspecting that this is an important metaphor because of the nature of the Book where we find, these uncanny correspondences between what the story says and Paleontology we, ourselves, only recently have discovered give a degree of credence Noah and his Ark.

a number of things in the story strangely correspond one-to-one with what we now know to be true.

1) It is uncanny that both Genesis and Genetics explains that everyone living today is related to just one man, a common father, who lived about 40 thousand years ago.

2) The story also agrees in that the three different sources for the population of the whole earth, Ham, Shem, and Japheth corre4sponds directly with the Three Racial Stock Theory that separates our earliest racial differences of Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negroid.

3) Just before the "flood" Genesis reports inbreeding between different "kinds" of men, a case of hybridization which we recently confirmed by genetic tests that indicate the people of today carry Neanderthal genes in them.

4) Genesis tells us that Ham, Shem, and Japheth were all born 100,000 to 145,000 years ago, which corre4sponds with the time table science holds for Modern Homo sapiens.

5) Paleontology reports a mass extinction of lower forms of humans took place 40,000 years ago, when Neanderthals and Homo erectus went extinct.
The was the purpose of the flood, to eliminate other types of mankind.

6) Paleontological Theories called "Out -of-Africa" and the "Noah's Ark theory" connect the migration out of Africa, 40,000 years ago, with the sudden population explosion among Modern Homo sapiens and the spread of modern man around the globe and to the mountain tops.

7) There is also the genetic evidence for an "Eve, mother of all men theory," better assumed to refer to Noah's wife, which explains all people today had one common mother who @200,000 years ago.
This evidence compares and corresponds with the Genesis "flood" out of Africa story since the three sons of Noah were born when Noah was 500 years old, but the flood did not come until he was 600 years old.
If we take the liberty of applying "a day is to the lord like a thousand years," as the Bibles says,... 40 days = 40,000 years.

////
Then we have these Paleontologists who are atheists but liked the correspondences enough to use the idea below:

Christopher Stringer and Peter Andrews proposes that modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens 200,000-150,000 years ago only in Africa and then some of them migrated into the rest of the Old World replacing all of the Neanderthals and other late archaic Homo sapiens beginning around 100,000 years ago.

If this interpretation of the fossil record is correct, all people today share a relatively modern African ancestry. All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct.

From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2013 3:32 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Pressie, posted 09-03-2013 12:58 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 283 of 991 (705851)
09-03-2013 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Tangle
08-29-2013 3:32 AM


Re: But the Biblical Flood myths have been totally refuted.

Noah's ark was sat on a mountain, so even though he was dry, he had to wait a while for the bath water to drain out. (Where to?)

I love the idea that anything could grow on land poisoned by salt water.

I love the idea that an olive tree would survive being totally submerged by brackish water for months - it obviously hadn't grown from seed in a few days. Or was this a miracle?

I also love the idea that the entire ecosystem of the globe could be destroyed then spring immediately back to life in a matter of days.

Yep.

These points you make nullify the story as the people during the Middle Ages understood it. It doesn't add up factual when we examine the science evidence.

In the capacity of a literary critic, giving the author the benefit of the doubt, and suspecting that this is an important metaphor because of the nature of the Book, we find these uncanny correspondences to support the writing as metaphor.
Then, from such a perspective, the many factual correspondences between what the story says and Paleontology we, ourselves, only recently have discovered give a degree of credence Noah and his Ark.

A number of things in the story strangely correspond one-to-one with what we now know to be true.

1) It is uncanny that both Genesis and Genetics explains that everyone living today is related to just one man, a common father, who lived about 40 thousand years ago.

2) The story also agrees in that the three different sources for the population of the whole earth, Ham, Shem, and Japheth corresponds directly with the Three Racial Stock Theory that separates our earliest racial differences of Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negroid.

3) Just before the "flood," Genesis reports an inbreeding between different "kinds" of men, a case of hybridization, which we recently confirmed by genetic tests that indicate the people of today carry Neanderthal genes in them.

4) Genesis tells us that Ham, Shem, and Japheth were all born 100,000 to 145,000 years ago which corresponds with the time table science holds for Modern Homo sapiens. (Adjusting the metaphor to mean 100 years = 100,000 years)

5) Paleontology reports a mass extinction of lower forms of humans took place 40,000 years ago, when Neanderthals and Homo erectus went extinct.
According to Genesis, the was the very purpose of the flood, to eliminate other types of mankind.

6) Paleontological Theories (called "Out -of-Africa" and the "Noah's Ark theory") connect the migration out of Africa, 40,000 years ago, with the sudden population explosion among Modern Homo sapiens and the spread of modern man around the globe and to the mountain tops, as if a flood of not water, but a species.

7) There is also the genetic evidence for an "Eve, mother of all men theory," better assumed to refer to Noah's wife, which explains all people today had one common mother who @200,000 years ago.
This evidence compares and corresponds with the Genesis "flood" out of Africa story since the three sons of Noah were born when Noah was 500 (000) years old, but the flood did not come until he was 600 (000) years old.

If we take the liberty of applying "a day is to the lord like a thousand years," as the Bibles says,... 40 days = 40,000 years.

////
Then, we have these Paleontologists (who are atheists) but liked the correspondences enough to use the idea below:

Christopher Stringer and Peter Andrews proposes that modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens 200,000-150,000 years ago only in Africa and then some of them migrated into the rest of the Old World replacing all of the Neanderthals and other late archaic Homo sapiens beginning around 100,000 years ago.

If this interpretation of the fossil record is correct, all people today share a relatively modern African ancestry. All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct.

From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2013 3:32 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by kofh2u, posted 09-07-2013 5:16 PM kofh2u has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 429 of 991 (706195)
09-07-2013 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by kofh2u
09-03-2013 6:40 AM


Making only the assumption that years means thousands of years,...
In the capacity of a literary critic, giving the author the benefit of the doubt, and suspecting that this is an important metaphor because of the nature of the Book, we find these uncanny correspondences to support the writing as metaphor.
Then, from such a perspective, the many factual correspondences between what the story says and Paleontology we, ourselves, only recently have discovered give a degree of credence Noah and his Ark.

A number of things in the story strangely correspond one-to-one with what we now know to be true.

1) It is uncanny that both Genesis and Genetics explains that everyone living today is related to just one man, a common father, who lived about 40 thousand years ago.

2) The story also agrees in that the three different sources for the population of the whole earth, Ham, Shem, and Japheth corresponds directly with the Three Racial Stock Theory that separates our earliest racial differences of Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negroid.

3) Just before the "flood," Genesis reports an inbreeding between different "kinds" of men, a case of hybridization, which we recently confirmed by genetic tests that indicate the people of today carry Neanderthal genes in them.

4) Genesis tells us that Ham, Shem, and Japheth were all born 100,000 to 145,000 years ago which corresponds with the time table science holds for Modern Homo sapiens. (Adjusting the metaphor to mean 100 years = 100,000 years)

5) Paleontology reports a mass extinction of lower forms of humans took place 40,000 years ago, when Neanderthals and Homo erectus went extinct.
According to Genesis, the was the very purpose of the flood, to eliminate other types of mankind.

6) Paleontological Theories (called "Out -of-Africa" and the "Noah's Ark theory") connect the migration out of Africa, 40,000 years ago, with the sudden population explosion among Modern Homo sapiens and the spread of modern man around the globe and to the mountain tops, as if a flood of not water, but a species.

7) There is also the genetic evidence for an "Eve, mother of all men theory," better assumed to refer to Noah's wife, which explains all people today had one common mother who @200,000 years ago.
This evidence compares and corresponds with the Genesis "flood" out of Africa story since the three sons of Noah were born when Noah was 500 (000) years old, but the flood did not come until he was 600 (000) years old.

If we take the liberty of applying "a day is to the lord like a thousand years," as the Bibles says,... 40 days = 40,000 years.

////
Then, we have these Paleontologists (who are atheists) but liked the correspondences enough to use the idea below:

Christopher Stringer and Peter Andrews proposes that modern humans evolved from archaic Homo sapiens 200,000-150,000 years ago only in Africa and then some of them migrated into the rest of the Old World replacing all of the Neanderthals and other late archaic Homo sapiens beginning around 100,000 years ago.

If this interpretation of the fossil record is correct, all people today share a relatively modern African ancestry. All other lines of humans that had descended from Homo erectus presumably became extinct.

From this view, the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by kofh2u, posted 09-03-2013 6:40 AM kofh2u has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by NoNukes, posted 09-07-2013 8:44 PM kofh2u has responded
 Message 431 by Coyote, posted 09-07-2013 9:41 PM kofh2u has responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 432 of 991 (706214)
09-08-2013 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by NoNukes
09-07-2013 8:44 PM


Re: Uncanny...

KOFH2u:
4) Genesis tells us that Ham, Shem, and Japheth were all born 100,000 to 145,000 years ago which corresponds with the time table science holds for Modern Homo sapiens. (Adjusting the metaphor to mean 100 years = 100,000 years)

NoNukey:
I'll say this is uncanny. Somehow that common father actually had descendants that were born somewhere between 60,000 and 100,000 years before he lived.

Or maybe someone is just making up silly stuff and calling it uncanny.

The first thing is that the Bible even mentions that everyone living today is related to just one man, Noah, which in itself is uncanny.

The second thing which is uncanny, is that The Three Racial Stock Theory confirms that all Modern Homo sapiens have been derived fro Ham, Shem, and Japheth.

That we never had a clue that this was the actual facts until after the 19th Century, at least, is amazing confirmation of the general story of Noah being founded upon the truth.

The third uncanny CORRESPONDENCE, between Genesis and the extinction of Neanderthal/Hobbit man, Homo erectus, et al, is that we just learned in this present age, this was the actual case.

Before you pick at the details that we can discuss further, you must admit that these statements in Genesis are not only right, but an uncanny coincidence if you excuse them as lucky guesses.

If you can't or won't do that, please don't go any further with the literary criticism I am embarking upon, in defense of the story, because it wastes time when your mind set is biased.


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 Message 430 by NoNukes, posted 09-07-2013 8:44 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 433 of 991 (706215)
09-08-2013 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by Coyote
09-07-2013 9:41 PM


medieval interpretations no withstanding...

Genesis is reported to deal with the last 6,000 years.

That is not the way I understand the Genesis time line, so it has no place in the literary criticism which I am introducing.

I have already explained many times to you that since the Solar Clock was assigned as the time keeper for earth, well into the story of those first seven "days" we logically can conclude the seven
days" of creation were seven durations unrelated to earth days.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Coyote, posted 09-07-2013 9:41 PM Coyote has responded

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kofh2u
Member (Idle past 2236 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 434 of 991 (706216)
09-08-2013 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by Coyote
09-07-2013 9:41 PM


Noah lived 380,000+ years before the 40,000 yr extiction flood...

In other words, you are wrong again: the age of 40 thousand years is not mentioned anywhere!

If you just jump on to this with the intent of denigrating the analysis without understanding what I am saying, you come away with a criticism of things I never said.

Genesis supports the understanding that Noah had three sons 140,000 years BEFORE the "flood."

But the paleontology today says that "all the regional anatomical differences that we see among humans today are recent developments--evolving mostly in the last 40,000 years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Coyote, posted 09-07-2013 9:41 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
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