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Member (Idle past 369 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Is religion good for us? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
archaeologist Inactive Member |
It is my assertion that organized religion is doing more harm to man than good. I may concede that it has been beneficial in the past and may even have been pivotal in our assent from darkness but in the world today, it is a cancerous blight one-sided arguments likwe this one are very dishonest as it ignores all the unbelivers, athiests, evolutionists, secularists, who commit crimes like murder, rape, incest, theft, and so much more. it alsoignores the lessons of history like the communistic gov. who murder millions of their own people, dictators who abuse and kill their own, totalitarian gov. who do the same and so much more. if i were you i would be less worried about religious people and more worried about your own kind. wh do you think invents all those terrible weapons of war, mixes all those gases to be used in bombs, refines those poisons so spies and others can be eliminated without worry of being discovered and so much more...atheistic scientists that is who.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
If we were to restrict ourselves to discussing specific religions you all do not understand anything, Jesus said, 'I came not to bring peace but a sword...' which means there will always be conflict in this world because so many will reject the gospel and pursue evil. it is evil that causes people to sin and commit crimes against others NOT Jesus or God, if they are followed correctly.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
until you people start factoring in the fact that once you remove religion, especially christianity, ytou remove all morals and the need to be good. let me cite some historical examples:
1. the rape of nanking2. the comfort women of korea 3. the japanese from let's say 1890s to 1945 4. dr. megeles and his fellow nazi scientists 5. the gestapo 6. the nazis 7. stalin and his purges 8. lenin and his ruthlessness 9. communist russia 10 mao 11 communist china and the list goes on...religion isn't he problem...well christianity isn't the problem... it is those men and women who decide not to follow Christ and seek fame, power, control et al, and become very corrupted (but this last part is not limited to world leaders, it takes place on the local level as well as evidenced in the prayer/murder thread) christianity is good for you if you obey but if you do not then christianity cannot help you, the choice is always up to you.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
We are solidly in agreement that the most preferable world would not include religion, and would instead include a great deal more education in logic and critical thinking from an early age. But as it relates to the OP, I simply cannot classify every possibility that is less beneficial than the absolute optimal solution to be "evil." Religion is a symptom of the irrationality that naturally comes with the human mind unless education and effort are taken to curb our instincts. Again I would use my analogy of a loaded rifle on a table: you probably don't need it at all, you might shoot your neighbor with it(intentionally or otherwise), and while you could use it for the good purpose of hunting food for your family, it's generally better to just buy food from the grocery store. Religion isn't really necessary. It can and has been used to cause great harm, both intentionally and unintentionally. It can and has also been used to great benefit, spreading what were for a time progressive moral systems and codifying laws so that permanent societies could form, and still today drive a great deal of humanitarian aid...but it would be better if people just cared about humanitarianism without the additional baggage of religion. what a laugh. a bunch of biased, unobkective, hatefilled people thinking they can decide for billions of people. your analogy fails for it assumes that the other person at the table is like-minded with you. with no morality, there is nothing stopping him from picking up the gun when you are not looking and shooting you to get the food you bought at the grocery store. you people just do not think things through and are very blinded indeed. your blaming of religion for things religion did not do undermines any credibility you think you have.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Then why am I and other atheists (who make up a measurable proportion of the population nowadays) not murderous rampaging psychopathic rapists? Why don't I steal? Why do I speak up for oppressed minorities? Why do I try to help my neighbors when I'm able, and give to charities? where do you think those maorals come from? theydo not come from the apes as one researcher claimed, they come from the Bible and have preceeded every secular nation on earth thus secularists were taught biblical principles andm orals even though it is not credited.
Traditional Japanese religion (Shinto, I beleive, but I could be wrong) atheists always take the general and apply it to the specific. they do not go deeper or they would see that their arguments do not hold up: SHINTO
Unlike most other religions, Shinto has no real founder, no written scriptures, no body of religious law, and only a very loosely-organized priesthood. It does not have its own moral code The desire for peace, which was suppressed during World War II, has been restored. you have no argument. The nazis were not christian, nor did they act according to Christ's rules, instructions, commands, nor God's. ref.: the beatitudes, 1 John, and the rest of the Bible.
The belt buckle of the Nazi military uniform was inscribed with the words (translated) "God with us. this is just laughable that is like saying our father gave you a belt with those words on it and you are now a christian. ha ha ha.you do not know how to apply your examples very well. But oddly enough, after their highly immoral governments acted to remove religion, the people of Russia and China still did not revert to murderous rampaging psychopathic rapists and thieves that wasn't because of atheistic rule but biblical morals and it hides the fact that stalin and his men murdered 14,000,000 of his own people. people were too afraid to stray because they might be next. fear does not say much for atheistic rule.
In the Scandinavian nations, atheists represent a significant portion of the population...yet they have some of the best social programs for caring for the sick and poor and elderly of all nations yet whose system of morality are they employing? God's. as far as I know there is no atheistic document recording its own ancient moral code. all morals have 1 source--God. {but that doesn't make atheistism christian or a part of God}
Religion is not necessary for morality to exist. no, but for morality to exist, God must. No God no morality for humans cannot conjure up what they have no concept of and any 'moral' rule they devise is no greater than the moral rule of another human. without God's standard, you cannot condemn Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and so on for there is nothing to say they are wrong. With God's ultimate standard we know what is right or wrong and we can punish such people as mentioned because we do not subscribe to a humanstandard but a higher one that trumps all and is perfect. read Ravi Zacharias' "the End of Reason' for a better presentation of this argument.
But Christianity can also be very bad, and it can never be as good for you as some of the alternatives. the only way that christianity is bad for someone is if they do not follow the Holy Spirit's leading, Jesus's teachings and God's commands and rules. Then they are not practicing christianity but following their own desires and using the term christian for their own purposes in deceiving others.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Let me remind you that you are addressing an audience largely composed of people who are atheists, and who therefore know for certain that you are bearing false witness. yet i am not, for God initiated morality with Adam and Eve, guess who distorted its source throughout the subsequent years--those who turned away from God. Then Noah and his family taught God's way, guess who distorted the source-- those who turned away from God and followed evil. one does NOT have to commit murder or rape to be considered following evil. one may say they are a good person BUT GOD looks on the heart and those who have not repented, He sees their sin. you can argue with me all you want but i am not the final judge, God is andHe sees far more than I do. I am just a messenger and telling you that even mother theresa could go to hell, because salvation does not depend upon works--it depends upon John 3:16 and God's grace. if you do not do as Jesus said and be born again--you are out of luck no matter how moral you think you are. Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
didn't say one false hood if you remove religion you remove morality.
this has been proven time and again, north korea is another prime example. Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given. Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
wrong again, for you confuse 'fear of punishment' with morality.
one will be good because they fear fines, imprisonment or some other form of punishment but that doesn't mean they are moral. the japanese are a good example. their main 'religion' has no moral teachings then they suspended it for ww2. removing their religious beliefs allowed them to commit the most immoral acts against other nations. remove religion remove morality. there are those who did not follow that path and kept to their moral teachings BUT all morality comes from God thus even though a secular person may teach a 'moral code' they did not invent it, they got it from someone else who got it from someone else who got it from someone else and so on until we get back to God. atheism is not moral, just look at ho wyou all talk about christians and what you want to do with them. you want to strip them of the same rights you enjoy and manyother things hypocrisy, double standards, fibbing, fudging, being dishonest, manipulation, and so much more that you all practice is NOT morality. you may think because you do not kill, rape or steal (cars, etc ) that you are moral, but morality goes a lot further than that. you may think you are a good person but you need to compare yourself with the sandard--Jesus and God-- then see where you stack up. Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.
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