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Author Topic:   Is religion good for us?
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 181 (576684)
08-25-2010 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dogmafood
08-23-2010 10:23 PM


It is my assertion that organized religion is doing more harm to man than good. I may concede that it has been beneficial in the past and may even have been pivotal in our assent from darkness but in the world today, it is a cancerous blight
one-sided arguments likwe this one are very dishonest as it ignores all the unbelivers, athiests, evolutionists, secularists, who commit crimes like murder, rape, incest, theft, and so much more.
it alsoignores the lessons of history like the communistic gov. who murder millions of their own people, dictators who abuse and kill their own, totalitarian gov. who do the same and so much more.
if i were you i would be less worried about religious people and more worried about your own kind. wh do you think invents all those terrible weapons of war, mixes all those gases to be used in bombs, refines those poisons so spies and others can be eliminated without worry of being discovered and so much more...atheistic scientists that is who.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dogmafood, posted 08-23-2010 10:23 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 181 (576686)
08-25-2010 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Rahvin
08-24-2010 8:05 PM


If we were to restrict ourselves to discussing specific religions
you all do not understand anything, Jesus said, 'I came not to bring peace but a sword...' which means there will always be conflict in this world because so many will reject the gospel and pursue evil.
it is evil that causes people to sin and commit crimes against others NOT Jesus or God, if they are followed correctly.

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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 181 (577075)
08-27-2010 4:25 AM


until you people start factoring in the fact that once you remove religion, especially christianity, ytou remove all morals and the need to be good. let me cite some historical examples:
1. the rape of nanking
2. the comfort women of korea
3. the japanese from let's say 1890s to 1945
4. dr. megeles and his fellow nazi scientists
5. the gestapo
6. the nazis
7. stalin and his purges
8. lenin and his ruthlessness
9. communist russia
10 mao
11 communist china
and the list goes on...religion isn't he problem...well christianity isn't the problem... it is those men and women who decide not to follow Christ and seek fame, power, control et al, and become very corrupted (but this last part is not limited to world leaders, it takes place on the local level as well as evidenced in the prayer/murder thread)
christianity is good for you if you obey but if you do not then christianity cannot help you, the choice is always up to you.

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Rahvin, posted 08-27-2010 11:49 AM archaeologist has replied
 Message 80 by jar, posted 08-27-2010 12:03 PM archaeologist has not replied
 Message 83 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2010 12:33 PM archaeologist has replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 181 (577077)
08-27-2010 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Rahvin
08-26-2010 6:09 PM


Re: Religion = Bonbons
We are solidly in agreement that the most preferable world would not include religion, and would instead include a great deal more education in logic and critical thinking from an early age.
But as it relates to the OP, I simply cannot classify every possibility that is less beneficial than the absolute optimal solution to be "evil." Religion is a symptom of the irrationality that naturally comes with the human mind unless education and effort are taken to curb our instincts.
Again I would use my analogy of a loaded rifle on a table: you probably don't need it at all, you might shoot your neighbor with it(intentionally or otherwise), and while you could use it for the good purpose of hunting food for your family, it's generally better to just buy food from the grocery store.
Religion isn't really necessary. It can and has been used to cause great harm, both intentionally and unintentionally. It can and has also been used to great benefit, spreading what were for a time progressive moral systems and codifying laws so that permanent societies could form, and still today drive a great deal of humanitarian aid...but it would be better if people just cared about humanitarianism without the additional baggage of religion.
what a laugh. a bunch of biased, unobkective, hatefilled people thinking they can decide for billions of people.
your analogy fails for it assumes that the other person at the table is like-minded with you. with no morality, there is nothing stopping him from picking up the gun when you are not looking and shooting you to get the food you bought at the grocery store.
you people just do not think things through and are very blinded indeed. your blaming of religion for things religion did not do undermines any credibility you think you have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Rahvin, posted 08-26-2010 6:09 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2010 4:49 AM archaeologist has not replied
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 181 (577245)
08-27-2010 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Rahvin
08-27-2010 11:49 AM


Then why am I and other atheists (who make up a measurable proportion of the population nowadays) not murderous rampaging psychopathic rapists? Why don't I steal? Why do I speak up for oppressed minorities? Why do I try to help my neighbors when I'm able, and give to charities?
where do you think those maorals come from? theydo not come from the apes as one researcher claimed, they come from the Bible and have preceeded every secular nation on earth thus secularists were taught biblical principles andm orals even though it is not credited.
Traditional Japanese religion (Shinto, I beleive, but I could be wrong)
atheists always take the general and apply it to the specific. they do not go deeper or they would see that their arguments do not hold up:
SHINTO
Unlike most other religions, Shinto has no real founder, no written scriptures, no body of religious law, and only a very loosely-organized priesthood.
It does not have its own moral code
The desire for peace, which was suppressed during World War II, has been restored.
you have no argument. The nazis were not christian, nor did they act according to Christ's rules, instructions, commands, nor God's.
ref.: the beatitudes, 1 John, and the rest of the Bible.
The belt buckle of the Nazi military uniform was inscribed with the words (translated) "God with us.
this is just laughable that is like saying our father gave you a belt with those words on it and you are now a christian. ha ha ha.
you do not know how to apply your examples very well.
But oddly enough, after their highly immoral governments acted to remove religion, the people of Russia and China still did not revert to murderous rampaging psychopathic rapists and thieves
that wasn't because of atheistic rule but biblical morals and it hides the fact that stalin and his men murdered 14,000,000 of his own people. people were too afraid to stray because they might be next. fear does not say much for atheistic rule.
In the Scandinavian nations, atheists represent a significant portion of the population...yet they have some of the best social programs for caring for the sick and poor and elderly of all nations
yet whose system of morality are they employing? God's. as far as I know there is no atheistic document recording its own ancient moral code. all morals have 1 source--God. {but that doesn't make atheistism christian or a part of God}
Religion is not necessary for morality to exist.
no, but for morality to exist, God must. No God no morality for humans cannot conjure up what they have no concept of and any 'moral' rule they devise is no greater than the moral rule of another human. without God's standard, you cannot condemn Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and so on for there is nothing to say they are wrong.
With God's ultimate standard we know what is right or wrong and we can punish such people as mentioned because we do not subscribe to a humanstandard but a higher one that trumps all and is perfect.
read Ravi Zacharias' "the End of Reason' for a better presentation of this argument.
But Christianity can also be very bad, and it can never be as good for you as some of the alternatives.
the only way that christianity is bad for someone is if they do not follow the Holy Spirit's leading, Jesus's teachings and God's commands and rules. Then they are not practicing christianity but following their own desires and using the term christian for their own purposes in deceiving others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Rahvin, posted 08-27-2010 11:49 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 181 (577248)
08-27-2010 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Dr Adequate
08-27-2010 12:33 PM


Let me remind you that you are addressing an audience largely composed of people who are atheists, and who therefore know for certain that you are bearing false witness.
yet i am not, for God initiated morality with Adam and Eve, guess who distorted its source throughout the subsequent years--those who turned away from God.
Then Noah and his family taught God's way, guess who distorted the source-- those who turned away from God and followed evil.
one does NOT have to commit murder or rape to be considered following evil. one may say they are a good person BUT GOD looks on the heart and those who have not repented, He sees their sin. you can argue with me all you want but i am not the final judge, God is andHe sees far more than I do.
I am just a messenger and telling you that even mother theresa could go to hell, because salvation does not depend upon works--it depends upon John 3:16 and God's grace. if you do not do as Jesus said and be born again--you are out of luck no matter how moral you think you are.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2010 12:33 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2010 10:09 PM archaeologist has replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 181 (577297)
08-27-2010 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Dr Adequate
08-27-2010 10:09 PM


didn't say one false hood if you remove religion you remove morality.
this has been proven time and again, north korea is another prime example.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-27-2010 10:09 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-28-2010 12:54 AM archaeologist has replied

  
archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 181 (577316)
08-28-2010 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Dr Adequate
08-28-2010 12:54 AM


wrong again, for you confuse 'fear of punishment' with morality.
one will be good because they fear fines, imprisonment or some other form of punishment but that doesn't mean they are moral.
the japanese are a good example. their main 'religion' has no moral teachings then they suspended it for ww2. removing their religious beliefs allowed them to commit the most immoral acts against other nations.
remove religion remove morality. there are those who did not follow that path and kept to their moral teachings BUT all morality comes from God thus even though a secular person may teach a 'moral code' they did not invent it, they got it from someone else who got it from someone else who got it from someone else and so on until we get back to God.
atheism is not moral, just look at ho wyou all talk about christians and what you want to do with them. you want to strip them of the same rights you enjoy and manyother things hypocrisy, double standards, fibbing, fudging, being dishonest, manipulation, and so much more that you all practice is NOT morality.
you may think because you do not kill, rape or steal (cars, etc ) that you are moral, but morality goes a lot further than that. you may think you are a good person but you need to compare yourself with the sandard--Jesus and God-- then see where you stack up.
Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-28-2010 12:54 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 99 by bluegenes, posted 08-28-2010 9:28 AM archaeologist has not replied
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