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Author Topic:   Is religion good for us?
Phat
Member
Posts: 15391
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 137 of 181 (715018)
12-31-2013 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
12-30-2013 6:51 PM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
Any nation or group of people who fight us---we are supposed to spend our own tax money on and educate and train and allow them to build up and prosper so that they can then compete with us and maybe even take our trade away that way? God how i hate competition! We end up spending money to build up our own competition!!

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 Message 136 by jar, posted 12-30-2013 6:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 12-31-2013 11:55 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 138 of 181 (715019)
12-31-2013 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
12-31-2013 11:51 AM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
Well, yes.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 12-31-2013 11:51 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-31-2013 4:37 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15391
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 139 of 181 (715033)
12-31-2013 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by jar
12-31-2013 11:55 AM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
someone should do an audit to see if its cheaper to blow them up than it is to educate and eventually compete with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 12-31-2013 11:55 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 12-31-2013 4:50 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 140 of 181 (715036)
12-31-2013 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
12-31-2013 4:37 PM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
someone should do an audit to see if its cheaper to blow them up than it is to educate and eventually compete with them.

And you really expect that ignorance like that should be paid for by someone else dying?

Pitiful.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 12-31-2013 4:37 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 01-02-2014 7:59 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15391
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 141 of 181 (715182)
01-02-2014 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by jar
12-31-2013 4:50 PM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
all im saying is that this whole idea that a bunch of poor folks can become greedy and have no regard for the property of others and then we are supposed to comfort the poor babies by investing our tax dollars (which we need ourselves, by the way) into fixing up their country. I say that we should treat them like the criminals they are.

Dont you understand what will happen to the U.S. middle class if we build the whole world up to compete on equal footing?

(I know that you do because we have been through this time and time again...)

Our tax dollars should be used on our citizens first. period.

And I realize im not sounding very altruistic right now, but sometimes we have to claim what is ours before it is all given away to other countries.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 12-31-2013 4:50 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by GrimSqueaker, posted 02-20-2014 11:31 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 144 by jar, posted 02-20-2014 8:30 PM Phat has responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 142 of 181 (715210)
01-02-2014 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Phat
12-30-2013 12:08 PM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
Phat writes:

Stile writes:

No one is evil for their feelings or thoughts.
You would only be evil if you actually did something (or intended to do something) that was evil.

Would it be evil for us---as a society---to send drones after the pirates?

Yes, it would.

But, perhaps you are attempting to ask the question of should we send drones after the pirates?

That is another question, and it depends on many things.
Can we correctly identify the pirates?
Do they deserve a drone attack?
What are the possible consequences to non-pirates?

The resulting conclusion (in some certain scenario) may be "yes, we should send drones after the pirates."

But, even if that is the resulting conclusion... it's still evil.
It's hurting the pirates very much... most likely killing them.

It may be justified, it may be for a greater good, it may be the best option available to increase the total good as much as possible... but the action itself would still be evil.

When we stop recognizing the evil we're doing in the name of good... is when we open the door to become corrupted and begin to think that none of our actions are evil.

Evil actions are never okay... that's why they require justification.
But even if the justification is valid... it doesn't mean the action isn't evil anymore.
It just means we need to go through with the evil action.

Yes, it's complicated and convoluted. Quite possibly illogical or contradictory in some way.

I would hope that killing people would never be simple and easy and straightforward.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 12-30-2013 12:08 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
GrimSqueaker
Member (Idle past 2588 days)
Posts: 137
From: Ireland
Joined: 03-15-2013


Message 143 of 181 (720117)
02-20-2014 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Phat
01-02-2014 7:59 AM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
i love this post - so well put, I particularly liked

"When we stop recognizing the evil we're doing in the name of good... is when we open the door to become corrupted and begin to think that none of our actions are evil."

The simplistic ideology of Devine Command and similar I feel often leads to this kind of evil, when one is sure they are doing good is sometimes when they are most in danger of doing wrong.


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 144 of 181 (720205)
02-20-2014 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Phat
01-02-2014 7:59 AM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
all im saying is that this whole idea that a bunch of poor folks can become greedy and have no regard for the property of others and then we are supposed to comfort the poor babies by investing our tax dollars (which we need ourselves, by the way) into fixing up their country. I say that we should treat them like the criminals they are.

Think Phat.

Pirates are treated like criminals.

No one says that "we are supposed to comfort the poor babies by investing our tax dollars (which we need ourselves, by the way) into fixing up their country"; what is said is that enabling folk to find careers other than piracy makes economic, moral and political sense.

Dont you understand what will happen to the U.S. middle class if we build the whole world up to compete on equal footing?

Of course I do. We will either compete successfully or fail.

Our tax dollars should be used on our citizens first. period.

And that is what I am suggesting. Investing in infrastructure, education, health care and creating jobs is cheaper than decade long wars.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Phat, posted 01-02-2014 7:59 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 02-21-2014 9:31 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15391
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 145 of 181 (720259)
02-21-2014 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by jar
02-20-2014 8:30 PM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
sometimes I fly off at the handle.

I'm all for rebuilding the infrastructure and educating the masses here at home.

I think my anger is more properly directed at the two recent wars that bankrupted our future. Education is a huge issue and hits close to home for me, as my niece--who is a teacher without tenure---was told essentially that she is being let go since the district is 2 million dollars n the hole(St.Louis inner city) and yet we pay and pay for military stuff.

And here I go and advocate military action against the pirates! I was using them as a scapegoat for middle aged frustration, I suppose.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by jar, posted 02-20-2014 8:30 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by frako, posted 11-18-2014 7:53 AM Phat has responded

  
bibi123 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2317 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 11-18-2014


Message 146 of 181 (742209)
11-18-2014 2:45 AM


religion based censorship/miseducation around the world (is that a word?)

Edited by bibi123, : No reason given.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reset spam signature to blank.


  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 147 of 181 (742222)
11-18-2014 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Phat
02-21-2014 9:31 AM


Re: Solutions for Somali Pirates
Well dont worry now that you have republicans in office the tax cuts for the rich will enable them to "trickle down" on to the poor.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 02-21-2014 9:31 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 11-19-2014 8:14 AM frako has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15391
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 148 of 181 (742343)
11-19-2014 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by frako
11-18-2014 7:53 AM


A brief off topic greeting to Frako
Here in Colorado, the Republicans nearly swept the Democrats out of every major office except the Governor---the only notable Democrat to win.

Hows Slovenija? Have you all managed to fully recover from the "Great Recession"?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo


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 Message 149 by frako, posted 11-19-2014 8:45 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2931
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 149 of 181 (742348)
11-19-2014 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Phat
11-19-2014 8:14 AM


Re: A brief off topic greeting to Frako
Hows Slovenija? Have you all managed to fully recover from the "Great Recession"?

Na our problems are you can vote for any party you want its just that theyr all crooks.

Some stuff that we have problems with.

Or ex prime minister took a bribe form patria so their tanks get picked. He got a whole 2 years in prison for it currently all his apeals have been denied he has the constitutional court and the european human rights court left to apeal to. There is also an abundanceevidence of him selling our weapons to croatioans douring their war with serbia and making tones of profits by it and weakining our defense by it but the crimes have passed their statues of limitations. Oh and every day for the past 100 so days as he was inprisoned his "sheep" keep protesting to let him out.

We built a coal powered power plant for 1,4 billion generating 600W of power while a new thermonuclear plant with 2 reactors producing 2 Gigawats of power would have cost us 1,8 billion, I think at least a billion was stolen.

After about 20 big fish including the ex prime minister being caught in drty dealings the president of the anticoruption commission (the guys that caught them) resigned reasons political pressure.

Another ex prime minister nominated herself and voted to send herself to the eu not really sure what her job would be but she would have gotten payed 20 000 EUR a month. She fought tooth and nail that what she did was perfectly legal and had no conflict of interest only to embarrass herself and our country in front of the European commity, she was labeled the worst candidate to apply.

Thats just some stuff from the top of my head on how my country is doing LOL

But its still funny to watch American politics the best reality show ever.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 11-19-2014 8:14 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 181 (759076)
06-08-2015 4:12 PM


Wow! talk about off topic !!!
I just joined the site, and was looking for serious discussion about creationist and evolutionist views.
This thread devolved into a talk about taxes, rich vs. poor and should we protect ourselves from criminals (Pirates) or not.

Is the bible good for us? Not when it is used to promote suffering. You can make a rich person poor, by stealing his money ... and the poor will squander it away so that everyone ends up poor. Or you can let the rich man alone, who will then spend his money to buy things that the poor can make for him, or services the poor can provide him. They will then have earned the money and may be less inclined to steal it.
Your bible says your lord helps those who help themselves. It says nothing about Robin Hood tactics that have never worked in any history.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 156 by Theodoric, posted 06-09-2015 7:59 AM mikechell has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15391
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 151 of 181 (759082)
06-08-2015 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by mikechell
06-08-2015 4:12 PM


Re: Wow! talk about off topic !!!
new guy writes:

Your bible says your lord helps those who help themselves.

That is not found anywhere in the bible.I will grant you that we do tend to wander off topic. You sound like a Milton friedman type conservative! (Am I close? )

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God — only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
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