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Author Topic:   Harvard Researcher May Have Fabricated Data
jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 65 (577778)
08-30-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Bolder-dash
08-30-2010 7:51 AM


Bolder-dash writes:

Trade secret laws are the reasons industry sponsored scientific testing tends to produce results that favor those industries?

No, nor did I say that.

Trade Secret laws do prevent the Scientific Method from working. Part of the Scientific Method is open disclosure of data, methods, process, as well as conclusions.

Trade Secret laws prevent that from happening.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7701
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 32 of 65 (577804)
08-30-2010 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 7:24 AM


it took OVER 40 YEARS before someone thought that piltdown man was a fraud.

So how did they determine that Piltdown Man is a fraud? Care to explain? From what I know, no one ever came forward and admitted that they faked it.

if you think that the 'self-correcting' aspect of science is alive and well think again, the christian church has been detecting frauds for over 2,000 years.

Yes, just like that fraud Galileo who had the gall to suggest that the Earth moved about the Sun and not the other way around.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6048
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 33 of 65 (577817)
08-30-2010 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 7:24 AM


the christian church has been detecting frauds for over 2,000 years. we can start with marcion to the gnostics and their books {collected in the nag hammadi library} on up further to the rcc when luthor exposed them and on up to the 21st century.

This statement really doesn't say anything does it? What Christian church is it of which you speak? Because for the first 1500 years of this period the Roman Catholic Church was the christian church, but yet in the same sentence you claim they were exposed by Luther(maybe if you spelled names properly people might actually try to take you seriously. Nahh who am I kidding).
So this christian church you claim was exposing frauds was itself a fraud? Is that what you are trying to say? Is there one Christian church now? What church would that be.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 34 of 65 (577821)
08-30-2010 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Theodoric
08-30-2010 2:31 PM


Is there one Christian church now?

Yes. The one he goes to. That's the only trve church.


Your god believes in Unicorns
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 35 of 65 (577827)
08-30-2010 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 7:24 AM



if you think that the 'self-correcting' aspect of science is alive and well think again, the christian church has been detecting frauds for over 2,000 years. we can start with marcion to the gnostics and their books {collected in the nag hammadi library} on up further to the rcc when luthor exposed them and on up to the 21st century.

Yes that might explain why there are hundreds of Chritian denominations since each claims to be true. They can't seldf correct themselves so they start a new fallatious denomination. Tell me one Christian denomination that does not have flaws.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by archaeologist, posted 08-30-2010 7:24 AM archaeologist has responded

Replies to this message:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 65 (577832)
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


Nobody ever said it was.

yes someone did say it or it wouldn't have been quoted. i am going to have to change my quoting habits to make sure editing doesn't take place after i quote theperson.

No we don't, we're not creationists, afterall.

actually you do and creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong' and 'if any man bring a different gospel than the one Jesus and the disiciples brought...'

the most uneducated christian can detect fraud.

They are a part of the scientific community.

oh pulleeaasssee. that is stretching credibility beyond its snapping point.

students felt they were being pushed to reach a particular conclusion that they thought was incorrect

this doesn't cover up the fact that it still took 8 years and HOW MANY students accepted the conclusions and went along with their professor? thousands?

science has no morality, no superiority no higher moral code:

from may 2009--it took 12 YEARS to discover thisone

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=406

this one is on going

http://nov55.com/fraud2.html

here is a interesting article

http://www.naturalnews.com/...scientific_fraud_vaccines.html

peer review doesn't as i have said before

from the article immediately above:

announced the retraction of over 70 peer-reviewed studies

here is a list of articles documenting scientific fraud

http://www.naturalnews.com/scientific_fraud.html

editorial accomplice

http://www.authorstream.com/...nce-technology-ppt-powerpoint

Scientific dishonesty in Journal editing :Scientific dishonesty in Journal editing Or, what can stop fraudsters (from the University of Nottingham, for example) when journal editors support them? www.talenco.info

then to continue your research at your leisure:

http://search.yahoo.com/..._ylt=AnZyBHAvt4eZobz0x72IHBebvZx4

with christianity, people are allowed to start new denominations because true christian churches do not have the legal authority to stop them. any one who cites this as a fact that they keep practicing forgets the example of professor Hwang in Korea who was caught in fraud, lost his government position and funding but continued to do science in the private sector.

why didn't other scientists stop him and others who do the same? sorry but you have no argument.

Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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archaeologist
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 65 (577833)
08-30-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by bluescat48
08-30-2010 4:05 PM


Yes that might explain why there are hundreds of Chritian denominations since each claims to be true. They can't seldf correct themselves so they start a new fallatious denomination. Tell me one Christian denomination that does not have flaws.

faulty logic. it isn't that they cannot self-correct, it is that they do not want to. the truth is there and they have free choice to follow the truth or not. GOD does not strong arm people into following Him. He leaves that up to a person's God given right of free choice.

If He strong armed all to follow His way, evolution would not be taught at all anywhere.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 65 (577834)
08-30-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


why didn't other scientists stop him and others who do the same?

Stop him how? Please be specific.


This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 39 of 65 (577837)
08-30-2010 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:23 PM


the truth is there and they have free choice to follow the truth or not.

That is the point. What is the truth, just what you think it is?

GOD does not strong arm people into following Him.

Your god wouldn't have to, He has enough idiots doing that for him now.

When someone shows the absolute truth, then maybe I will listen. Since no-one can, the point of acceptance is moot.

Edited by bluescat48, : typo


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by archaeologist, posted 08-30-2010 5:23 PM archaeologist has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7701
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 40 of 65 (577838)
08-30-2010 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


why didn't other scientists stop him and others who do the same? sorry but you have no argument.

Perhaps because the other scientists didn't know he was inventing his data whole cloth. Sounds reasonable to me.

The fact that scientists have their careers ended when fraud is discovered says a lot about the ethics of the scientific community. If your only complaint is that scientists are not omniscient and omnipresent the I really wonder why you are picking on science and not other professions.


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subbie
Member (Idle past 70 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 41 of 65 (577839)
08-30-2010 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


actually you do and creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong' and 'if any man bring a different gospel than the one Jesus and the disiciples brought...'

QFT


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist


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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 808 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 42 of 65 (577845)
08-30-2010 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


Hi, Archaeologist.

archaeologist writes:

why didn't other scientists stop him and others who do the same?

For the same reasons that non-scientists don't stop other non-scientists who do unethical things:

  1. They didn't know he or his work even existed (this is a big one).
  2. They don't really know or care enough about what he does to suspect or investigate him for doing it poorly.
  3. They don't like confrontation.
  4. They couldn't collect enough evidence in their spare time.
  5. They thought they knew him better than that.
  6. They didn't want to risk offending him if their claims turned out to be false.
  7. ...etc.

Scientists are people, and as such, a group of scientists should be expected to act generally like any other group of people. Individual scientists are subject to all the ethical ambiguities and follies of non-scientists, and you'll notice that nobody here has yet claimed otherwise.

But, nobody here is arguing that scientists are ethical or moral standouts among people: rather, we argue that the system that we work under, in aggregate, does a good job of modulating the impacts of ethics violations by requiring all theories and experimentation to be made available for scrutiny by others with the expertise to scrutinize it.

Edited by Bluejay, : Edited out science-specific phrases in the list of reasons.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6048
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 43 of 65 (577850)
08-30-2010 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:23 PM


No true Christian I see
So you are in the possession of the secret of determining what is a true Christian?

Your beliefs are the one true set of beliefs for all Christians.

I just want a confirmation about what you are saying.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 1402 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 44 of 65 (577890)
08-30-2010 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


archaeologist writes:

yes someone did say it or it wouldn't have been quoted. i am going to have to change my quoting habits to make sure editing doesn't take place after i quote theperson.


Oh, please do tell us who this person was.
This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 45 of 65 (577908)
08-31-2010 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-30-2010 5:19 PM


actually you do and creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong' and 'if any man bring a different gospel than the one Jesus and the disiciples brought...'

No it only took ~1500 years of alleged fraud for Luther, Calvin & Pastorius to find the fraud. I'll take 8 or 40 any day.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by archaeologist, posted 08-30-2010 5:19 PM archaeologist has not yet responded

    
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