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Author Topic:   True science follows the evidence wherever it leads (The design of the eye)
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 39 of 49 (389662)
03-14-2007 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by ICdesign
03-12-2007 9:51 PM


more on the pile
welcome to the fray ICDesign
Here is my beef with the theory of evolution in a simple nutshell. I don't see evolution (macro) taking place in the world in which I live right now today.
Unfortunately - for you - your opinion is worthless. Most of your post is an argument from ignorance and incredulity.
See MACROevolution vs MICROevolution - what is it? and this question regarding "macro"evolution:
Please define "macro"evolution - so we can be sure we are (a) talking about evolution and (b) we are talking about the same thing.
Also define "micro"evolution just to be sure we are talking about something different.
It should be easy eh?.
I would welcome your definitions.
First of all how would a non-thinking source even know that we needed to see to begin with?
You need to realize that evolution is not driven towards any goal, there is no single feature that was developed because it was needed. Not one. As has been pointed out eyes are not needed by the majority of species - all the ones that do not have them do not need them to survive or reproduce. Survival and reproduction are the key to whether an existing feature is passed on to the next generation. All that is needed is small differences - variation caused by mutations - accumulating over time as they are succesful at meeting the filter of selection. That such things are developed by accumulation rather than by design is evidenced by problems and errors that cannot be reversed (by evolution) that would NOT be a result of design.
For a discussion of the design of the eye please see Silly Design Institute: Let's discuss BOTH sides of the Design Controversy.... That is - ostensibly - the topic of your post although you don't really address it except to express your incredulity and your ignorance of all the variety of eyes that have evolved AND of all the problems with vision in different species.
In my opinion Intelligent Design is a fact not a theory.
Again, your opinion is useless. What you need is evidence. Your incredulity and ignorance of ways in which vision could evolve is not evidence of anything other than your incredulity and ignorance. You need evidence of some mechanism that blocks something from occurring. That is notoriously absent.
Now each of these systems are extremely complex are they not? Complexity requires forethought.
This is a bald assertion unsupported by any evidence. Not only that you have a problem of a total lack of definition of what you are talking about: what IS "complexity" as you are using it? Not that standard definitions are much help:
No webpage found at provided URL: com·plex·i·ty -noun
1. the state or quality of being complex; intricacy: the complexity of urban life.
2. something complex: the complexities of foreign policy.
So we need to define "complex" to define "complexity" ...
No webpage found at provided URL: com·plex --adjective
1. composed of many interconnected parts; compound; composite: a complex highway system.
2. characterized by a very complicated or involved arrangement of parts, units, etc.: complex machinery.
3. so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with: a complex problem.
4. Grammar.
. a. (of a word) consisting of two parts, at least one of which is a bound form, as childish, which consists of the word child and the bound form -ish.
. b. complex sentence.
5. Mathematics. pertaining to or using complex numbers: complex methods; complex vector space.
So complexity is the state or quality of being composed of many interconnected parts.
By this definition a simple molecule is complex, and any single cell that evolves a new interconnection in a molecule - evidenced by DNA or a new ability has become more complex - it has added to the state or quality of being composed of many interconnected parts.
This has been observed, many times, thus your assertion is falsified. Complexity has evolved in species with no thoughts, no help, no "needs" - to say nothing of any forethought.
For more on this please see Irreducible Complexity, Information Loss and Barry Hall's experiments, where "Irreducible Complexity" and "Information" are also discussed.
Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ICdesign, posted 03-12-2007 9:51 PM ICdesign has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 41 of 49 (389665)
03-14-2007 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by ICdesign
03-14-2007 6:14 PM


Re: THE KNOCK OUT PUNCH & JUDY SHOW
I see that in the time it took me to get my poor old badly designed computer to post the response I had that you have decided to run screaming FROM the debate.
You realize that this is standard creationist tactic:
Message 40
* Declare yourself the victor without producing a scap of a shred of a scitilla of evidence against evolution.
And then to run away so that you don't have to confront reality.
Enjoy.

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by ICdesign, posted 03-14-2007 6:14 PM ICdesign has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by sidelined, posted 03-14-2007 7:42 PM RAZD has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 44 of 49 (389699)
03-14-2007 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by nator
03-14-2007 9:56 PM


vidi vici ...
he came
he saw ...
... evidence contrary to his preconceptions
he ran
intelligent design = using "start" to turn a machine off?

Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by nator, posted 03-14-2007 9:56 PM nator has not replied

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