Church Is Not Enough?

Hi Tram, I can agree with that.I can also agree with the Continental Congress that the Bible is a good book.In 1781 Robert Aitken presented a petition to Congress offering to print "a neat Edition of the Holy Scripture for the use of Schools.For those who question whether congress approved the printing you can find a copy of the Journals of Congress Here.And Here. As you did not define your meaning of Christianity, proper Christian and religion it is hard to follow your OP.If you mean by Christianity as those who claim to be a christian then you are probably right in your assesment.If you mean by proper Christian as being a person who has been born again of the Holy Spirit and are living their life like Christ lived His life, yes they will be in Heaven.But they are not the only people who will be in Heaven. God did set the rules and we can not change them. These verses says God loved mankind and provided a way mankind could be saved. Jesus did not come to condemn mankind as mankind was already condemned.God gives the only reason mankind is condemned and that is not believeing in what took place at Calvary and accepting that by believing in Jesus for their salvation.God set no other requirements to become a child of His.All children of God will be in Heaven. You have those in the wrong order.The order should be home and then Church.Because the home is in a shambles, the Church is in a shambles and our country is in total chaos.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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So how do we determine what is safe and nonthreatening behavior, and how do we do that and enforce it without stepping on the students' civil rights?

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Of the whole post you ask a question that doesn't deal with religion and has an obvious answer.Who determines the rules of the school? The school system and depending on the school system, sometimes the parents. Our society has a general idea of what is considered safe and nonthreatening behavior.You gave me nothing to expand on concerning the topic.Edited by purpledawn, : Changed teachers to parents.

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As you did not define your meaning of Christianity, proper Christian and religion it is hard to follow your OP.

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Actually its a hard thing do because each sect of Christianity claims that it and only it is the proper way of being a Christian.

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God did set the rules and we can not change them.

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So that means we are still bound by the laws set in Leviticus. We can not change rules. But that's a really poor claim because Christianity has changed over time. If Christianity could never change under any circumstances then there would be no sects of Christianity.But that is another topic for another time. Please stay on topic.Edited by Tram law, : added a phrase

Nor can we know we know them.All we have are fallible human assertions of what some of them believe god's rules to be, with no way to check which ones are right. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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You have those in the wrong order.

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The order should be home and then Church.

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Because the home is in a shambles, the Church is in a shambles and our country is in total chaos.

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Just because some churches aren't doing their job to teach their religion, doesn't mean it is up to the public school system to teach their religion.In this nation a public school system would need to teach about all religions to keep it balanced.I don't have a problem with a class that gives general overviews of various religions, but I don't think the public school system is the place to teach the tenants of any specific religion. There are too many variables within each religion and many parents are very very picky about what religious traditions are taught. They may not be teaching it at home, but they don't want anyone else to either.

Hi PD, If religion is ever taught in government controled schools it would probably be necessary to teach it in a philosophy class to avoid being unconstitutional. The constitution states the government is not allowed to establish a national religion or church. To teach any one version would be establishing a national religion.

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

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.So I seem to agree with you that my specific religious beliefs should not be taught in a public school system.There are private schools that do that quite well.God Bless,This is one of the most misunderstood statements ever made.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I dont really see why teaching christianity (or any other religion) is such a big deal. It mostly depends on how it is being given to students.I can see that opinions about it might be a bit spreaded if it is being thaught by a pastor, or a teacher who is generally interested in the subject.
According to wikipedia more then 4 billion people believe a major religion, neither is it a subject you never come across.
While at school I often get questions about christianity which they would know if they ever looked up something on the internet, or if they would have had some lessons about it.

i dunno abbout the us, but in slovenia there is a very clear line betwean church and state, though this is true there are 2 high schools that are very christian i dunno where they get their funds probably from the church and a small portion from the state, a lot of parrents send their kids to those high schools cause they are colsed communeties and they think their kids will be safe from drugs ...., and that their kids will get a moral upbringing there most are dissapointed i had 5 friends go to that high school 4 of them are fu***ed up none of them have fhinished collage none of them have jobs 2 of them are pot smoking hipies, one turned to the ocoult the 4th is a slut that rides anyone that will take care of her when he gets tired she finds another.althouhg i think it has more to do whit their methods than the belief itself, from what i understand they wake up at 06:00 for mas each day there after mass prayer before breakfast then school prayer before lunch (at 11:00) more school, a mass in between at 12:00 prayer before lunch nr 2 at (15:00 ), then learning hours till 18:00 some more prayer then dinner 3 hours of time for hobbies like bible study chess .... then lights out at 22:00. the kids there have no time to rebel cause they live in a cloister for gods sakes i would never on my life send my kids there. that is what happens when priests get a educators degree and they think they know how handle kids.as for the guy that said students have no rights try saying that here they would tare you to pieces we have a very active student community that protests for every small right that might be in danger on a regular basis at one time it got a bit out of hand and they stoned the parlament they wrecked and smashed every window.tudentje razbili slovenski parlament. video
this is a report of the protest a bit biast, they where protesting some social rights that if removed could have caused studiying from being a right to being a privilage for those that could afford it.

There's this thing called "secular government".It means that no public instituition is allowed to put one religion over or below any other in any way. Teaching one and not others in a public school is effectively free advertising for that one religion, and that's putting one religion over all others.Which is illegal in any half-decent democracy. So, do you see where the problem is now? But teaching it in its own class is not good enough. Because of the reasons above.Teaching it in a comparative religions or philosophical history class would be okay, and (almost) all others in the thread have agreed so, as long as it was not promoted above the others.

One thing that strikes me about this discussion is that many Christians are in favor of teaching creationism in schools and it's further clear that each one thinks that the version taught will be THEIR version.But how would a YECer feel if OEC were the version of creationism taught. How would both feel if it were a version of ID that accepts common descent?One of the main reasons the founders wanted separation was to avoid such sectarianism, and that's quite beside the issue that no version of creationism is remotely scientific.

First, it is important to distinguish between the different ways that religion can be included in education. Now, I have this feeling that you are referring not to the folk who wish simply to teach about religion(s) in school, but to the folk who would like school to serve as a promoter of a specific religion (in the U.S., it is often some conservative, extremist, fundamentalist form of Christianity).In terms of the latter group, I believe their primary aim is not to increase religion in the schools, but to decrease education. By pushing their religion into the classroom, they subtract time from other academic disciplines that they feel are immoral, such as science, sex education, history, math, etc. By replacing these blasphemous school subjects with something clearly non-blasphemous, they feel they can push out the invasion of modern immoral education in schools and thus save their children's souls... from the boogieman, no doubt.Most would likely rather do away with public schooling entirely. Indeed, many do just that, not by destroying it, necessarily¹, but by removing their children from the public schools to either indoctrinate them in the comfort of their home or send them to CCoI avoidance schools, where the worries of Satan's army of teachers no longer exists.Jon
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¹ Of course, the goal of public education being to educate the public, when groups of folk refuse to partake in the activity, they, in effect, destroy it by working against its goals.

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"Can we say the chair on the cat, for example? Or the basket in the person? No, we can't..." - Harriet J. Ottenheimer

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"Dim bulbs save on energy..." - jar

Religious teachings in the education system is not practical in that you have to have all faiths included. The church of your faith is the extension of education to your children. Why you feel they must be taught under the same roof is the question.

Yes!The primary reason my 12 year old daughter knows that religion is stupid is because we read the bible. If examined/read as one would read a biology book there is no better book than the bible in the world to show what a vile & disgusting creature YHWH is.My concern would be that the teacher would not treat the bible as any other book. If this were the case it could be dealt with. So, hell ya! Teach that crap to my kid so I do not have to stress over it at home.

If you want to religious teaching in schools, their tenants, then the answer seems to be yes, they do not reach enough people through their own channels or channel is not valid.Edited by Admin, : Spamify sig.

Hi arigatou, and welcome to the fray. Indeed, there seem to be a group of rather desperate (imho) believers that think that every single aspect of their lives needs to be tied up in their beliefs or they are in danger of losing their faith. Every waking moment, every breath, every thought.From my point of view this is a very weak form of faith, being so vulnerable to the slightest perturbation of wind by the wings of a butterfly. Sad to be so scared of exposure to any other kind of thinking.Enjoy.