Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (8936 total)
300 online now:
dwise1 (1 member, 299 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: ssope
Post Volume: Total: 861,908 Year: 16,944/19,786 Month: 1,069/2,598 Week: 315/251 Day: 43/43 Hour: 1/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1 of 657 (578687)
09-02-2010 10:26 AM


Buz has claimed that there is some evidence that the Biblical Exodus happened.

While the saga itself has none of the attributes of an historical account and all of the attributes of an extended fable meant to provide food and shelter for the storyteller over many nights, it is always possible that there was some small truth that led to the creation of the longer fable.

This thread is meant as an opportunity for Buz in particular but anyone else who might think it is an actual historical account to present their best arguments in support of that position.

Bible Accuracy if possible.

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 09-03-2010 7:39 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 13 by frako, posted 09-05-2010 4:24 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 463 by kowalskil, posted 04-08-2011 10:01 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3 of 657 (578715)
09-02-2010 12:11 PM


Let's begin with the format of the fable.

The Exodus myth is written as a series of short episodes, much like the old weekly theater shorts. In the early Egypt section of the myth, Pharaoh decides that there are too many Hebrews, so he hatches a plot.

Pharaoh calls in the two Hebrew midwives (note the fist sign that it is fantasy, that even though the Hebrews were breeding too fast, there were only two midwives). Also, like any good urban myth, details that are really irrelevant to the story but make it sound real are added, in this case the names of the two Hebrew midwives.

Pharaoh's plan is to have these two women kill off any boy children and let the girls live. Of course that is a really stupid idea if the purpose was to reduce the Hebrew population since it is girls that actually bear new kids, not men. I imagine that even Pharaoh knew that. It also is silly because just a few paragraphs earlier it was said that the Hebrews were being used for labor and males do more work of that sort then women. BUT... it is an essential part of creating a hero myth, it helped make the birth of the hero something important, messianic.

Episode One ends with the typical cliffhanger, Pharaoh orders every male child to be thrown in the river.

Edited by jar, : Added closing )


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2010 5:51 AM jar has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 5 of 657 (579088)
09-03-2010 3:09 PM


Well, as expected, it doesn't look like Buz or anyone else is stepping up to present any evidence in support of the Biblical Exodus fable.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 8 of 657 (579197)
09-03-2010 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Larni
09-03-2010 7:44 PM


Re: Pharaoh was as thick as a brick!
Actually that is just another example that shows the story was designed as a serial. When it looks like Pharaoh is about to let the people go, the story teller has God step in and change Pharaoh's mind.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Larni, posted 09-03-2010 7:44 PM Larni has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 09-03-2010 11:35 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 9 of 657 (579228)
09-03-2010 8:57 PM


Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Bump for Buz.

Here is your big chance Buz. Let's see all the evidence for the Exodus and see if any of it can stand up to examination.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 11 of 657 (579418)
09-04-2010 3:02 PM


Bump for Buz.
Here's your big chance Buz. Let's see the evidence you claim exists for the Biblical Exodus. Please bring us some evidence that there was some Biblical Exodus.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 14 of 657 (579846)
09-06-2010 10:04 AM


Bump for Buz
Hey Buz, still waiting for you to provide any evidence that the Biblical Exodus ever happened.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 09-06-2010 2:40 PM jar has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 17 of 657 (579913)
09-06-2010 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Buzsaw
09-06-2010 2:40 PM


Re: Bump for Buz
No problem Buz, after all we have been waiting over a half decade for you to present some evidence, a few years more shouldn't make much difference.

If you feel though that you present evidence and it just gets waved off then perhaps you can provide us a link to an example. I will be glad to address in far greater detail why I consider some specific piece of evidence as insufficient.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Buzsaw, posted 09-06-2010 2:40 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 21 of 657 (580013)
09-07-2010 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 8:55 AM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
Buz writes:

The Egyptians had a vested interest in admitting nothing of the Exodus and the disastrous results which would expose their vulnerability to their enemies.

Get serious Buz. Losing a Pharaoh and a whole army can not go unnoticed. They would have had to replace all the weapons, the chariots, the horses, the armor, the food stuff, the wagons, ...

Things like that do not go unnoticed nor can they be kept secret.

There would have been a regime change, new commanders, new priests, merchants from all over the world lined up to fill the needs.

Buz writes:

Hi Fraco. Welcome to EvC. After over three millenniums, what lamb bones left on the ground would you expect to find? Why should pottery be found? left by a relative fast moving troop of people in flight. What should you expect to find from nomads constantly on the move?

Fast moving? Get serious Buz. If the fable was true they simply could not have moved fast.

Did they build fires? If so then they would leave fire pits. Did they not stay in one place for decades? How exactly do you encamp the numbers claimed in the fable in one place for decades without leaving traces?

This thread is a place for you to finally present some evidence. You have admitted that you have none regarding the chariot wheels, now do you have any other evidence that might support the Biblical Exodus?

If so, here is you chance. Please present it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 8:55 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 25 of 657 (580018)
09-07-2010 10:04 AM


Well, since no one seems to want to present any evidence, I'll try to address some of the evidence presented online.

There is a claim that the altar of the golden calf was found, and that it also showed an Egyptian influence. This is the image used to support that assertion.

BUT...

that is simply an example of misrepresentation and in fact, doctoring the data.

Notice how the area around that image is all dark? That is a technique called burning, used long before there was any digital image technology. It simply wipes out any data that was in the burn area.

Here is the actual stone that the above image was taken from.

As can be seen in the original, the burned image used as evidence of a man holding up some cow is not that at all. In reality, the rock is covered with a montage of pictures, many of human hunting and male phallic symbols, various antelope, camels, dogs or wolves and geometric designs.

There is nothing to suggest that it was ever an "altar" or that it has anything to do with calves, in fact there is not a single calf depicted on the whole face of the rock. The images themselves are common to much of the rock art found all around the Mediterranean from North Africa to Spain.

From other sites around the Mediterranean.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 10:36 PM jar has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 28 of 657 (580021)
09-07-2010 10:16 AM


Another claim made is that the actual rock that was struck to produce water was found.

Here is some of the photographic "evidence" presented.

And here are similar rocks from around the world.

We can even look at the supposed Altar of the Golden Calf and see the same processes at work, split rocks and wind rounded edges.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 9:34 PM jar has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 36 of 657 (580134)
09-07-2010 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 9:34 PM


But Buz, what makes you think that shows a waterway?

Do you have any idea what water worn rocks really look like? Look at what you show, There are no rounded rocks, just flakes that are typical of chemical and temperature flaking.

Do you understand that the very link you provided refutes their claim that it is water erosion?

Here are what water eroded rocks look like.

Compare that to the Wyatt photograph.

Why should anyone believe anything from WAR since as I have shown, they fake the evidence and withhold data?

Buz writes:

Your other photos are totally irrevelant strawmen, in that none of them have a shred of corroborating Exodus evidence as does the Horeb Rock.

Still waiting for you to present some of the alleged corroborating evidence?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 9:34 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 10:03 PM jar has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 39 of 657 (580139)
09-07-2010 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 9:58 PM


On cattle and herds.
One thing about cattle and herds, they leave evidence. Yet guess what is NOT found?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 9:58 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 40 of 657 (580141)
09-07-2010 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 10:03 PM


Jar, I've brought up the needful photos that you failed to cite. Believe what you want and let each look and go figure for themselves. The flow lasted at least long enough to erode a visible flow bed as shown.

Are you saying that even though I included the link to the very picture you claimed as evidence that I failed to cite it?

Where is there a flow bed in the image?

Is this the image you want cited? If so, go back and look. I included it. If not, tell us which image you are talking about.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 10:03 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 10:45 PM jar has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31288
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 43 of 657 (580152)
09-07-2010 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Buzsaw
09-07-2010 10:36 PM


Re: Arabia/Midian Evidence
No golden calf was found that I'm aware of. What was found were these inscrptions at an alter site at the foot of Mt. Jabal el Lawz, the real Mt Sinai where it should be, Midian in Arabia. These inscriptions depict the golden calf.

Buz, did you even look at the pictures I posted?

They are not inscriptions.

There are NO inscriptions of the rocks. There are no calves on the rock. There is NO depiction of a golden calf.

Not unless you show the sheeple the whole evidence as shown in the link of the pile of rocks in which the inscriptions exist.

You mean like I did Buz?

Now let's discuss some more nonsense from Wyatt.

Remember the columns he found?

They are Roman Buz.

There was even a Roman city at Aqaba and a Roman road that was part of a highway system that extended down both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba.

I think part of the problem is that Wyatt and most of the audiences that watch his nonsense are totally ignorant of teh history of the area.

The supposed deserted area the Hebrews wandered through had been settled by folk for many centuries, civilizations like the Edomites, Egyptians, and later the Romans, Greeks and Muslims.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 09-07-2010 10:36 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 09-08-2010 10:35 AM jar has responded

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019