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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 473 of 657 (611896)
04-12-2011 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Buzsaw
09-10-2010 12:07 AM


Roads down to the Gulf of Aqaba
Buzsaw writes:

jar writes:

Buzsaw writes:

No Buldozers, blasting powder, and earthmovers to build a coastal highway through the mountainous terrain North and South of Nuweiba Beach, Jar. Who's more ignorant, Jar, apprised region savvy Wyatt audiences or Jar?

Good grief Buz. If the Romans could do anything at all, they could and did build roads. Everywhere. Ethiopia and Yemen were major sources for some spices and also gold.

Have a look, Jar, at the West Gulf Of Aqaba topography. And you think a coastal highway would or could have gone through that in ancient days?

Actually, the Via Nova Traiana ran 350 km. from Southern Syria, through the provincial capital of Arabia Felix at Bostra, past Petra to Aila on the Gulf of Aqaba.
In the 4th century, the Roman legion, Legio X Fretensis was stationed here.

By the way Buz, the Gulf of Aqaba is pictured on the right hand side of the image you linked to. It is the right-hand gulf of the Red Sea which , together with the left-hand Gulf of Suez, brackets the Sinai peninsula.

Aila is at the apex of the Gulf of Aqaba.

Your image is a bit misleading since it shows mostly the mountainous tip of the Sinai.

Cheers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Buzsaw, posted 09-10-2010 12:07 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 474 of 657 (611898)
04-12-2011 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Buzsaw
09-11-2010 7:58 AM


Re: Arabia/Midian Evidence
Buzsaw writes:

Bluescat writes:

Which could still be the Sinai Peninsula, since the Sinai peninsula was part of Midian. Why would Pharoah's army chase them into the Sinai? It makes more sense that they were trapped on the west arm of the Red Sea rather than the East arm, since the area would still be in Egypt not Midian.

Please cite an ancient map showing the Sinai Peninsula as the land of Midian.

Hi again Buz,

The Midianites were nomads too. As such their 'lands' may have been wherever they pastured their herds. According to what I have read some Biblical scholars see the Midianites as a group of tribes with a common culture rather than as a kingdom with set borders.

Some scholars put Midian within Sinai, others place it across Sinai and to the East of it. Currently it's a matter open to debate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2010 7:58 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 475 of 657 (611902)
04-12-2011 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Buzsaw
09-11-2010 9:49 PM


Re: Arabia/Midian Evidence
Buzsaw writes:

PaulK writes:

Not really. We don't even know if there was a particular part that Jethro could claim as his own. Herders in that time and place tended to be nomadic. And as has been pointed out you,r own source indicates that the borders of Midian were different then - and you still have not produced one piece of evidence that Mt. Sinai itself was in Midian.

According to Numbers 31:8 and 10 there were kings and citys in the land of Midian. There came a time when Moses warred against these kings and their cities by Jehovah's command.

This being the case, not all were nomadic shepherds. There were definable areas of the land.

LOL. Certainly, Paul, by now, I don't expect some of you members to acknowledge any cited evidence for anything ever supported by evidence relative to the Exodus.


8 And they slew the kings of Midian with the rest of their slain: Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword. ........

10 And all their cities in the places wherein they dwelt, and all their encampments, they burnt with fire.

PaulK writes:

There's no mention of any wadi or valley to cause delays. Delays on the way wouldn't matter, so that isn't significant at all. The fact is that there is no mention of the Israelites being trapped by the terrain, the Egyptians should have been faster and more mobile and there is some support from the text for the idea. And that is sufficient for the fear among the Israelites that is mentioned. (And given the disparity in numbers, and the benefit of rough terrain to the defenders I would suggest that even that fits with open flat country where the Egyptians could make most use of their chariots).

In Exodus 14:1-4 Jehovah instructs Moses into a region where they will be entrapped by the wilderness and the sea, leaving no escape route.

Tell the sons of Israel to turn back and camp before Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea; you shall camp in front of Baal-zephon, opposite it, by the sea. "For Pharaoh will say of the sons of Israel, ‘They are wandering aimlessly in the land; the wilderness has shut them in.’ "Thus I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and he will chase after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord." And they did so."
Exodus 14:1-4

Hi Buz,

Just a little heads up mate. You cite the Bible as your evidence.

The point is that this topic is about substantiating the Biblical Exodus story.

Logically, you really can't cite the Bible as evidence for itself - or any of its stories.

The point here is to discuss any extra-Biblical evidence which might corroborate the Exodus.

Has anyone here read about the supposed similarities between the Exodus story and the Hyksos expulsion?
Hyksos is apparently just another Egyptian term for 'Asiatic'.
Could the Israelites have been the Hyksos? Could they have been one of many groups of people settled in Egypt during a period of foreign occupation?

The Egyptians saw the Hyksos as foreign occupiers and thus their leaving of Egypt interpreted was later told of as an 'expulsion', giving it the historical resonance of a victory for the Egyptians.

The Israelites (or as the Egyptians migt have called them and other Asiatic 'aliens' - the 'Hyksos') would in turn have depicted it as a flight from persecution rather than an expulsion. Thus their 'escape' would then take on the dimensions of their own 'victory'?

Just some thoughts.

Cheers


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 Message 75 by Buzsaw, posted 09-11-2010 9:49 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 476 of 657 (612032)
04-12-2011 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 10:18 AM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
Buzsaw writes:

Huntard writes:

Buzsaw writes:

After over three millenniums, what lamb bones left on the ground would you expect to find? Why should pottery be found? left by a relative fast moving troop of people in flight. What should you expect to find from nomads constantly on the move?

From 1 to 2 million people on the move? A lot of evidence, that's what I'd expect.

Other factors regarding traces: They had one food; manna from the sky which lasted 24 hours for each serving. No need for food production or preservation etc. No plows or other implements were needed. Jewish law required the burial of human waste etc.

What evidence would you expect? I cited corroborating evidence in the region relating to the beach crossing. You all simply waived them all off, repeating the lie that I've provided no evidence.

That's the way it goes with you people who have a vested interest in non-accountability to a higher power.

Hello again Buz,

I'm a Catholic myself, so I don't have a "...vested interest in non-accountability to a higher power." In fact I believe in personal accountability to God.

That out of the way, your own statement underscores your lack of evidence.

You rightly stated that human waste had to be buried? Waste for nearly 2 million people is no little thing. Burial pits should literally be strewed all along their route. Also fire pits would have been a necessity - especially at night. Temperature drops quickly in that part of the world when the sun sets. In addition, despite having only mana to eat the Israelites, like any other people, must have had garbage - i.e. material no longer useful to them no? Broken pots, old cloth, broken tools or even lost items dropped along the way like coins (especially helpful in dating the period), carvings, bones of dead animals (they had flocks remember?), small implements.....

And all this would have to be in rather great quantities given the supposedly enormous size of the Israelite host.

Has anything like that been found along any of the proposed march routes?

If not then one must ask why.

Several possibilities present themselves:

1. the Exodus is ot historical and just an illustrative, allegorical story.

2.) the routes often touted do not describe the actual route taken.

3.) the numbers of the Israelites described in the Bible are typical ancient over-indulgences of the facts. The number of Israelites was much smaller.

4.) Perhaps the Israelites did not travel in one enormous group but rather in several smaller groups along different routes? This is a tactic often taken by large groups of nomadic peoples so that no one large host consumes the available forage in one area. Mongols and other steppe peoples tended to do this a lot when moving their enormous hordes about the steppes.
Note that even if the Israelites ate only mana, they had to have an enormous amount of animal stock - asses, mules, horses, camels, cattle, sheep, goats etc. These definitely could not live on mana.

However each of the alternatives above (except 1 of course) presents the same problems. Lack of physical trace evidence as I and others have already pointed out.

I would personally love it if such physical evidence were found. Alas such evidence does not currently exist.

Wyatt & cos. 'evidence' is rather subjective and certainly open to multiple other interpretations. Nor does his grasp of physical geography or the mechanics of erosion jive with the evidence he offers.


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MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 477 of 657 (612042)
04-12-2011 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 6:40 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
Buzsaw writes:

ringo writes:

We'd expect to find remnants of the utensils they used, the mills, the mortars, the pans, etc.

Why? These things went with them where ever they went. There's no reason most of that would have lasted 40 years or so. These things were hard to come by and needful.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Buz,

I belong to a historical recreation group (SCA). If you've ever ground grain to make flour as I have then you would certainly realise that no mill stone, bowl or other utensil is going to last 40 years. The Israelites may have had divine guidance and largess gifted to them, but there is no scriptural evidence they were gifted with high-tech artifacts that would stand 40 years+ wear and tear (yes that's 40 years and MORE. unless you are stating the Israelites took brand new implements with them for their journey?).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 6:40 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 478 of 657 (612043)
04-12-2011 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 6:59 PM


Re: Far Fetched Poop Holes
Buzsaw writes:

Likely there were holes or small trenches for the purpose downwind which were covered with layers of dirt until full.

Over the millenia, erosion etc would have left no trace. This is how the Exodus debate has been since the git go, with silly stuff like this after which the skeptics allege they've falsified the evidence. LOL. This is a good example of how futile it is to debate Bibliofobics on this topic.

Buz,

Archaeology and simple, basic archaeological principles aren't silly.

If we can still find middens today from that era or older, why shouldn't we expect to find middens left by an enormous concentration of people?

Middens aren't latrines by the way. They are piles of refuse and can contain anything from shucked oyster shells to broken artifacts and the other expected detritus of any group of people concentrated in one area.

Erosion would account for the dispersal of some middens assuredly, but at least a great many more would survive even in a slightly dispersed arrangement. The sheer volume of waste of a couple of million people are astounding. It isn't just modern society that has rubbish dumps.

Cheers


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Replies to this message:
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MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 480 of 657 (612053)
04-12-2011 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 7:18 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
Buzsaw writes:

huntard writes:

Evidence that the Jews were their. Their poop, their dead, their tools, their camp-sites. To name a few.

What sort of tools would you have expected them to leave behind or loose?

Shards of pottery, small loseable items like coins, beads (parts of necklaces), old leather thongs (leather would dry but not rot in such an environment), broken wooden hafts of tools, broken metallic objects of copper, bronze or iron, small musical instruments like flutes (wood, bone etc.), and best of all graves complete with grave goods.

Let's not forget that in forty years there are bound to have been a good many deaths amongst a group of 2 million people. Graves and grave goods should be fairly common place.

Buzsaw writes:

The only Native American camp sites that remain with evidence after less time were the ones where they lived for long periods of time. There have been camp sites all over the continent over the millenia. They had more primitive tools than the Israelites would have had. Thus broken ones etc show up at village sites. Not so with the Jews.

How many of those Native American camp sites boasted a population of 2 million people? Go ahead and check and get back to me with the largest population estimate for such a camp site.

The only site in the AMericas that even approached such numbers was probably Tenochitlan - the site of CITY of a stone-fashioning, metal smelting, advanced mathematics capable peoples.

A bit different from a North American 'camp site' wouldn't you say?

Buzsaw writes:

Their dead? How many Native American buried dead would you expect to find which would be over three thousand years old?

We get back to numbers again. How can you compare groups of people numbering in the hundreds to a group purported to number 2 million??
The odds of artifacts and graves being found increase exponentially with increase in population and length of stay in a particular area. That's why ancient cities numbereing tens of thousands of people or more yield more finds than occassional camp sites of a few hundred nomadic hunter/gatherers.

Buzsaw writes:

The people were very strong and healthy after years of hard labor in Egypt and having the perfect diet by Jehovah's providence. Relatively few would have died in the wilderness.

Where does it say that in the Bible please? Doesn't it state that the generation that left Egypt would not see the Promised Land?

Buzsaw writes:

According to the Biblical record they still lived relatively long lives in those days. Moses lived 120 years. He was healthy when he died, walking to the mountain where he was to die, according to the record.

True, however there is no indication that ordinary people rather than those of the lines of the Prophets or Kings lived anywhere near the same amount. In fact, the very idea that the Bible singles out such individuals and notes their excessively long lifespans implies that these were not ordinary people but the special friends of God.

Or would you dispute that?


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Replies to this message:
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MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 481 of 657 (612054)
04-12-2011 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 7:54 PM


Re: Kadesh Barnea
Buzsaw writes:

Asgara writes:

Wasn't the majority of the 40 years of wandering spent in one place? Thirty-eight years spent in one spot, by supposedly millions of people, would leave huge middens all clustered around the area.

Yes. Thank you Asgara. I forgot that important fact. This was at Kadesh Barnea.

There is some debate about the location of Kadesh, but most reliable sources like Josephus etc believe that Kadesh was Petra where there was good water and protection.

This location has been occupied by other cultures which have obliterated any evidence of of the Israelites over the millenia.

2000 BC: Abraham at En-mishpat: En-mishpat means "Spring of Judgement" that was renamed Kadesh by the Hebrews during the Exodus. Genesis 14:7 says: "Then they turned back and came to En-mishpat (that is, Kadesh), and conquered all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites, who lived in Hazazon-tamar."
1438 - 1400 BC: Kadesh-Barnea Hebrews spent 38 years at Kadesh Barnea with Moses and Joshua.
350 BC - 106 AD: Nabateans at Petra The Nabateans enlarged and enhanced the tomb city of the Hebrews. Everything we see today in Petra was the work of the Nabateans. Like Pharaoh in Egypt, the Nabateans removed all traces of the Hebrews in the multi coloured sandstone. Petra is a second use of the Hebrew Kadesh Barnea.
106 AD: Roman Petra: Arabia. The Romans annexed Petra and renamed it Arabia. Petra became the capital city of Roman Arabia.
100 AD - 400AD: Petra Josephus, Eusebius and Jerome all stated that Kadesh was at Petra.

Hi Buz,

Sorry, but your own example of the historical revisionism of the Egyptians doesn't help your cause. Even when trying to eradicate every tyrace of one person (like Hatshepsut or Akhenaten) the Egyptians could not prevent modern archaeology from uncovering more than just trace evidence of them.

Now you're saying that ALL the traces of an entire group of people numbering around 2 million were able to be obliterated by another group?

And by the way, Petra was never inhabityed by more than a few thousand people at any one time. It simply wasn't capable of sustaining that number. That's why the Nabateans constructed sophisticated water catchement systems to support even those few thousand.

Cheers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 7:54 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 482 of 657 (612055)
04-12-2011 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 8:08 PM


Re: Traces Of Israelite graves.
Buzsaw writes:

Asgara writes:

Buz, they almost ALL died in the wilderness. Their health when they died is irrelevant, the fact is they were all DEAD when they died. Millions of dead leave evidence in the desert.

But most would have been buried at Kadish which became occupied by other cultures over the millenia. What trace of the Israelite dead would you expect to be identifiable today? Note the link on that matter.

Once again I challenge you to provide evidence of such mass plundering of graves.

I'll play devils advocate for a moment and assume this was done. Later peoples found every single Israelite grave and removed the corpses and grave goods. Yes?

Where did they put the bones? Where did they stash the grave goods?

You're asking us to believe that all the bones, alll the distinctive grave artifacts just simply vanished by force of will?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 8:08 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 483 of 657 (612058)
04-12-2011 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 10:26 PM


Re: Corroborating Crossing Evidence.
Buzsaw writes:

Dr Jones writes:

What wheels Buz? Where are these alleged wheels?

The ones at Nuweiba. The ones in the midst of the corroborating evidence, that secularist marine scientists are reticent to research and falsify, concerned that they will confirm them to be valid.

These were the chariot wheels claimed to have been found by Wyatt? So where are they? Why has he not submitted them for testing? Where are the detailed photos? Where are accompanying artifacts (chariot wheels without ANYTHING else around them?)? Where is the GPS coordinate for the site? Why isn't it registered with the Egyptian Government?

It is people like Wyatt who bring disrepute to Biblical archaeology and therefore to our faith.

They are charlatans seking to agrandise themselves and not God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Buzsaw, posted 01-04-2011 10:26 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 484 of 657 (612061)
04-12-2011 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Buzsaw
01-06-2011 10:16 PM


Re: Say What?
Buzsaw writes:

jar writes:

Let's look at that evidence Buz, it was covered in Message 28 and in Message 36.
In Message 36 I provided a link to what water flow eroded rocks look like. They are rounded. They have been tumbled. There are no images of water eroded rocks at Horeb.

Did you even read my explanations as to why this is nonsense?

In addition, the rock claimed as the rock at Horeb is not at all unusual and I provided many links to similar split rock formations from all over the world.[/qs]

These other formations are straw-men examples, Jar. They have no corroborating relationship to the region in this discussion nor do they have anything resembling a waterflow. Even if they did, what would it prove relative to this debate? [/qs]

Well Buzz, I am using a Douay Rheims Bible. Here's what it says:

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:
Speak to the children of Israel: Let them turn and encamp over against Phihahiroth which is between Magdal and the sea over against Beelsephon: you shall encamp before it upon the sea.
And Pharao will say of the children of Israel: They are straitened in the land, the desert hath shut them in.
And I shall harden his heart, and he will pursue you: and I shall be glorified in Pharao, and in all his army: and the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord. And they did so.
And it was told the king of the Egyptians that the people was fled: and the heart of Pharao and of his servants was changed with regard to the people, and they said: What meant we to do, that we let Israel go from serving us?
So he made ready his chariot, and took all his people with him.

--- Exodus 14: 1-6

Note the bolded part of the quote. Here God specifically says that it is Pharaoh that will think that the Israelites are confused and entrapped, not that they actually are.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 486 by arachnophilia, posted 04-12-2011 9:28 PM MiguelG has responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 485 of 657 (612063)
04-12-2011 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Buzsaw
01-06-2011 10:49 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
Buzsaw writes:

I know a whole lot about Islam. ,.......

Clearly not enough?

Buzsaw writes:

For Islamists to ascribe to the Biblical exodus, would be for them to legitimize the nation of Israel. After all, Biblically, Jehovah promised the land of Canaan to the Jews forever. No?

No. Not at all. Islam does indeed support the fact that the whole of Exodus is as much a part of their religion as any other part of the OT. I'm surprised you don't know that having a copy of the Quran??

In fact Islam embraces not only Exodus but all of the Torah (or Tawrat as it is called in Islam). They also do not deny the Covenant of God with Israel.

They do state though, like us Christians, that Israel lost the specific title to being the 'Chosen People'.

Even a fanatical Islamist would not deny the Tawrat. That would be blasphemy.


This message is a reply to:
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MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 487 of 657 (612072)
04-12-2011 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Buzsaw
01-28-2011 7:57 PM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
Buzsaw writes:

LOL, Theodoric. What the image shows is what the crossing site is today.

What you now seem to be saying Buz, is that there is no way of pinpointing the Exodus crossing using todays geography?

If that's so then why do you spend so much time presenting current geography as evidence of the Exodus?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2011 7:57 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 490 of 657 (612365)
04-15-2011 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by arachnophilia
04-12-2011 9:28 PM


Re: it's a trap
arachnophilia writes:

MiguelG writes:

Note the bolded part of the quote. Here God specifically says that it is Pharaoh that will think that the Israelites are confused and entrapped, not that they actually are.

quote:
וְאָמַר פַּרְעֹה לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, נְבֻכִים הֵם בָּאָרֶץ; סָגַר עֲלֵיהֶם, הַמִּדְבָּר

and pharaoh will say of the children of israel, "they are confused in the land, the desert has shut on them"


yes, that's what it says. and the very next verse says that god will then "strengthen pharaoh's heart". the implication is very much that pharaoh is being tricked. however, short of a miracle, pharaoh's assessment is correct. they are trapped, enough that the israelites comment on it a few verses down.

quote:
And they said unto Moses: 'Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to bring us forth out of Egypt? Is not this the word that we spoke unto thee in Egypt, saying: Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it were better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.'

-- Exodus 14:11,12


so even the israelites think they're trapped. the only reason they're not is, as i said above, a miracle: god parting the waters, and allowing them to walk out of egypt on newly dry land.

Hi Arachnophillia,

I did read that section too. However it seemed to me that the Israelites were railing at Moses for getting them into the fix of having their backs to the sea and the Pharao's army coming in quickly for the kill.

They weren't afraid of being lost in the wilderness, but of dying IN it, murdered by the Egyptians in an alien land which they could not even call home.

That's how I read it anyway.

I'm quite willing to be corrected, but I honestly can't see how those two verses imply that the Israelites were actually lost.

How could they be lost? God had given them specific directions:

"Let them turn and encamp over against Phihahiroth which is between Magdal and the sea over against Beelsephon: you shall encamp before it upon the sea."

Presumably the names were familliar to Moses, if not also to the Isarelites?

But if I've missed something from the original Greek or Hebrew texts please let me know.

Edited by MiguelG, : Added conclusion to post.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by arachnophilia, posted 04-15-2011 2:09 AM MiguelG has responded

MiguelG
Member (Idle past 315 days)
Posts: 63
From: Australia
Joined: 12-08-2004


Message 491 of 657 (612367)
04-15-2011 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 489 by ringo
04-13-2011 12:39 AM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
ringo writes:

So much for the claim that people lived longer back then. It only took forty years to "consume" all of those over twenty years old - a maximum lifespan of sixty years.

Hey Ringo,

I also pointed out to Buzz that the Bible only records the extreme longevity of a relatively few people of importance - kings, prophets etc.

There is no verse that states or implies that people in general lived longer then. In fact the very point the Bible makes is to stress this longevity - something which is obviously miraculous when compared to a normal human lifespan.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 489 by ringo, posted 04-13-2011 12:39 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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