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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
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Message 153 of 657 (599133)
01-05-2011 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Buzsaw
01-04-2011 10:26 PM


Re: Corroborating Crossing Evidence.
Hi Buz,

I'd like to put this thread on an evidence-based footing. I've only read up to your Message 138 so far, so if you haven't already, please summarize the nature of the evidence found at Nuweiba, tell us where it is right now, and provide supporting links and/or references.

Also, most of your effort in this thread seems to be focused on explaining why there is no evidence for the Exodus. I'd like to shift the focus to the actual evidence that does exist.


--Percy
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This message is a reply to:
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Message 156 of 657 (599225)
01-05-2011 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by Buzsaw
01-05-2011 5:42 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
The request was to shift the focus of discussion back to the evidence, not to summarize all the evidence presented thus far in the thread. The only specific request for evidence I made concerned a chariot wheel.


--Percy
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Message 239 of 657 (602641)
01-29-2011 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 5:50 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
Since it doesn't appear you've seen it yet, I'm posting this message here to let you know I sent you a PM this morning.


--Percy
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Message 241 of 657 (602644)
01-29-2011 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Buzsaw
01-29-2011 6:07 PM


Re: Explaining the Nuweiba Sea Bottom Topography
Since it appears you still haven't seen it yet, I'm posting another message here to let you know I sent you a PM this morning.


--Percy
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Message 273 of 657 (602716)
01-31-2011 6:16 AM


Moderator On Duty Soon
I'm withdrawing from participation as Percy in this thread and will begin moderating tomorrow as Admin in an effort to bring about a shift of focus to the evidence for the Exodus.


--Percy
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Message 303 of 657 (602901)
02-01-2011 3:58 PM


Map of Eastern Mediterranean in the Time of Jesus
Showing trade routes leading to Jerusalem in the time of Jesus, this is from The Macmillan Bible Atlas:

The label "Arabia" begins in the Sinai Peninsula.


--Percy
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Message 311 of 657 (602933)
02-01-2011 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 5:01 PM


Re: Which Map Do We Go With?
Buzsaw writes:

I stand by the argument...

I'm here simply to effect an increased focus on evidence. The question isn't whether you are standing by the argument, but whether the evidence is standing by you. Arabia Petraea was the name Rome gave to their Arabian province. It refers to that part of Arabia ruled from Petra, an ancient city in what is now Jordan. This is from the Wikipedia article on Petra:

Wikipedia writes:

In 106 CE, when Cornelius Palma was governor of Syria, that part of Arabia under the rule of Petra was absorbed into the Roman Empire as part of Arabia Petraea, becoming capital.

In other words, Arabia Petraea was the portion of Arabia that became part of the Roman Empire.

This information I've just provided should not be considered final, and I'm not trying to join the discussion. This is just to illustrate that instead of just insisting that you're not giving up your position you should instead be seeking evidence that supports it.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
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Message 321 of 657 (602997)
02-02-2011 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 10:50 PM


Re: Which Map Do We Go With?
Buzsaw writes:

jar writes:

Third, you have presented NO corroborating evidence no matter how many times you claim it.


Fourth, LoL. I would not expect an admission of it from any of you people, no matter how much evidence I cited for anything evidencing the supernatural.

Buz, please reply to the substance of Jar's post, which argued that Arabia Petraea is one of three regions of Arabia, and therefore is part of Arabia.

You argued in Message 207 that because, "The Biblical record says Sinai is in Arabia," and that because the Sinai Peninsula is not in Arabia, that therefore the identification of the Mt. Sinai on the Sinai Peninsula could not be correct. There are a lot of good arguments for locating Mt. Sinai outside the Sinai Peninsula and a good deal of scholarship agrees with you, but the argument that the Sinai Peninsula was not considered part of Arabia at the time appears to be seriously flawed and is the one being challenged. If you have evidence supporting your position in the form of maps or excerpts then please present it.

Please, no replies to this message.

Edited by Admin, : Clarify.


--Percy
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Message 328 of 657 (603051)
02-02-2011 1:52 PM


Possibly Useful Information
Back in Message 311 I quoted Wikipedia saying that the part of Arabia under the rule of Petra only became part of Arabia Petraea in 106 CE, which was considerably after Galatians was written.


--Percy
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Message 352 of 657 (603340)
02-03-2011 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 7:33 PM


Re: More Than The Wheel
Buzsaw writes:

It's not the wheel. It's wheel and axle formS encased with coral. These forms are lying on an underwater field which is fairly void of much else such as rocks, etc. There is one which is notable in that it appears to be an upright axle with a wheel shaped form. The form resembles a pedestal table.

Could you please provide the following information about the chariot wheel:

  • Photographs.
  • Current location.
  • Name or names of those experts who examined the chariot wheel.
  • The analytical information gathered by the expert or experts.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Message 361 of 657 (603377)
02-04-2011 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by Buzsaw
02-03-2011 11:42 PM


Re: More Than The Wheel
Hi Buz,

I'd like a single post with all the chariot wheel evidence, so let me be more specific this time.

Please provide the following information:

  • Photographs of the chariot wheels.
  • Videos of the chariot wheels (links are okay).
  • Current location (museum, laboratory, etc.) of any chariot wheels recovered from the sea floor.
  • Expert's names and analyses indicating that they're chariot wheels and not something else, such as natural formations, coral-encrusted pleasure boat steering wheels, etc.
  • If expert analyses indicate these are ancient chariot wheels, then provide expert's names and analyses indicating the chariot wheels are from the appropriate period and region.

Edited by Admin, : Clarification.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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Message 366 of 657 (603434)
02-04-2011 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Buzsaw
02-04-2011 12:20 PM


Re: Buzsaw To All:
Buzsaw writes:

Thus he falsified it as a possibility, leaving the Nuweiba site being more shallow and having the corroborating evidence supportive to the Biblical record.

Regarding corroborating evidence for the Biblical flood at the Nuweiba site, let me repeat that I would like all corroborating evidence related to the chariot wheels at that site placed in a single message, specifically:

  • Photographs of the chariot wheels.
  • Videos of the chariot wheels (links are okay).
  • Current location (museum, laboratory, etc.) of any chariot wheels recovered from the sea floor.
  • Expert's names and analyses indicating that they're chariot wheels and not something else, such as natural formations, coral-encrusted pleasure boat steering wheels, etc.
  • If expert analyses indicate these are ancient chariot wheels, then provide expert's names and analyses indicating the chariot wheels are from the appropriate period and region.


--Percy
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Buzsaw, posted 02-04-2011 12:20 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

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Message 390 of 657 (603953)
02-09-2011 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Buzsaw
02-08-2011 11:52 PM


Re: Taking Chariots down the wall of the Grand Canyon
Buzsaw writes:

You're assuming that the mighty rush of water would have caused no erosion of a larger delta from the wadi canyon and that nothing changed during the event and over the millennia since the event from shipping and currents, earth quakes etc. Isn't the severe drop off in depth at the end of the delta unusual for deltas?

Before discussing the mechanisms by which the land bridge could have disappeared, please present evidence that the land bridge was ever there in the first place.


--Percy
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Message 393 of 657 (603963)
02-09-2011 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Buzsaw
02-09-2011 8:32 AM


Re: Debating Evidence
Buzsaw writes:

Given that the corroborating evidence cited has not been imperically refuted, it cannot be assumed that there was, for sure, never ever a delta extending further out into the sea.

You misspelled the word you bolded. Chrome and Firefox have built-in spell checkers.

If you have "corroborating evidence" for a land bridge, then please present it.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
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Message 394 of 657 (603964)
02-09-2011 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Buzsaw
02-09-2011 8:42 AM


Re: Wheel Forms
Buzsaw writes:

How many times do I have to repeat that we're not debating about a wheel. The video photographed evidence shows multiple wheel shaped and axle shaped forms as well as other unusual coral forms in a rather unusual location for coral.

If you have evidence that the objects in the photographs are Egyptian chariot wheels from the 18th dynasty, then please present it.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Buzsaw, posted 02-09-2011 8:42 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

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